When Commitment To Jane Hamsher Supersedes Critical Thinking

Outrage gets page loads. I settled for obscurity long ago because I had no wish to become an outrage-blog. Nevertheless, yesterday’s post on Jane Hamsher brought plenty of reaction; over at FDL, Kevin Gosztola answered me directly. (Full disclosure: Kevin’s got posting privileges here. He’s also at Op Ed News. He’s everywhere.)

[Osborne] goes after Hamsher for using a web ad company that took money from BP.

[...]

His commitment to taking down Hamsher supersedes critical thinking. He just jumps to conclusions without reading between the lines.

Actually, Kevin hasn’t clicked through to my previous post on Hamsher and BP, so he doesn’t realize my complaint is that Jane Hamsher WAS the web ad company. She took BP’s money while criticizing the Sierra Club for taking BP’s money. That’s a rank hypocrisy I refuse to rationalize away.

But “critical thinking” is where I draw the line here, because critical thinking is too often absent at the Fire of the Dog and the Lake. Many of Jane’s cool kids “read between lines” and discover exactly what they imagine is there. There is no party of no in their universe, no obstruction, no powerful interests, no adoption of any position that puts blame anywhere except the White House. Only Democrats are to be shamed, and perhaps primaried. Jane Hamsher’s fire all goes in one direction — and it’s not a helpful one.

But this hostility toward the administration is strangely absent when dealing with the opposition. Kevin continues:

Criticism of this nature toward Hamsher is purist and sanctimonious. It appears activists are not to make common cause with people they often disagree with when their views are in sync with one another. It seems forming a broad-based coalition that might frighten those in power because they aren’t facing opposition from the left or right but from the entire American population is to be frowned upon. Bipartisanship between activists is not okay, but the American people should swallow bipartisan health reform bills that force people to buy a defective product from private insurance companies and bipartisan tax cut compromises that raise taxes on those at the bottom while cutting taxes for the top 2%.

See, bipartisanship is only for purist, sanctimonious Republicans and Jane Hamsher. It’s not for Democrats who want to reach a consensus on a bill and pass it. Hamsher’s purity demands and sanctimony toward Democrats are not the problem; the problem is that I want Hamsher to stop being a sanctimonious puritan. See how that works?

But wait, there’s more. According to Kevin, Jane Hamsher pushing the public option on her website is a progressive credential. Prior to the passage of health care reform, this blog featured more than seventy posts related to the topic of the public option; so by those lights, I’ve done at least as much as Jane Hamsher. Where is my PAC to milk?

The reality is that eighty-three senators voted for unemployment extension and oligarch tax cuts last night. Eighty-three. Meanwhile, DADT and START sit waiting while the clock runs out. Expiry for the oligarch tax cuts is a winning issue for Democrats in 2012, so the real question is what FireDogLake will do to help. (Answer: shout at Obama some more.)

As for the charge I made yesterday that Hamsher serves another agenda, I would say the net effect of all the bill-killing hoopla is exactly what Republicans just happen to want to do: slow things down and prevent change. Whether by malice or mindlessness, the effect is the same. So I challenge Hamsher not for her style, but her substance — or the lack thereof.

Kevin asks me:

1)   Why are you and those who follow your blog so repulsed by criticism of Obama, criticism that can often be substantiated with facts or reason?

I’m not repulsed by criticism. I’m repulsed by whining radicals who come without any real interest in governing, but plenty of conviction that facts have innate power to overcome resistance. I have this in common with Saul Alinsky, whose book Rules For Radicals holds our problem in its title. The question also presumes that firebaggers have facts and reason, when what they usually have is a poor knowledge of civics (for which I blame the GOP, by the way).

Worse, most of that progressive faction has no idea how bad things really are among the proletariat. Four million people suddenly added to the 99ers would be nothing less than a disaster. What is FDL or Commonsense Media or Jane Hamsher going to do about the ensuing spiral — type in all caps?

Onward:

2)   What do you think Democrats should stand for and, if they fail to stand for those agenda items, values or principles should there be consequences?

The problem with this question is that it presumes Democrats would stand. That is especially unlikely now after a midterm election debacle. Toward that end, however, I’ve been advising red-state Dems to stop describing themselves as “pro-life” and instead talk about a right to life that does not end at birth. So if Kevin is complaining that Democrats don’t have their own talking points factory, I am entirely on his side; but 2009-2010 was a failure of movement as well, which brings me to his next question:

3)   How should Democrats counteract the Tea Party? If liberals or progressives shouldn’t pull the Democrats in the opposite direction through primary challenges or third party candidates, what should be done to halt the influence of the Tea Party on the Democratic Party and the Obama Administration?

I’m not sure where Kevin is coming from, because I’m fine with primaries. As far as third parties go, I’d argue the best model is the Working Families Party and the fusion ballot, as these have actually helped bring New York Democrats left by turning out GOTV for Democrats who adopt their platform.

In the sense that tea parties have “influenced” Washington, they have done so because the activist left took a two-year lunch break to bitch and moan about a man who wasn’t on the bloody ballot this midterm. So Democrats shouldn’t counter the tea party — the movement should do that, as I’ve been arguing almost since the inauguration.

4)   What about the prospect of making common cause with those whom liberals are often opposed to in single-issue campaigns? What’s wrong with that?

I have no problem working around differences on things unrelated to the task at hand. I’m a team player by nature and training. That said, I don’t make common cause with the enemy in time of war, and that is precisely what is going on in America: culture war. We see it all the time in the rhetoric of movement conservatives and the Republican strategy of no. They mean to destroy us; I take them at their word.

5)   What do you think the liberal or progressive blogosphere’s value is to Americans? Is it supposed to be an arena that produces reporting on subjects? Is it to combat the failure of corporate media? Or is it supposed to be an environment that upholds glib and snarky posts and rarely produces reporting or interviews, which might inform and provide insight on key issues?

So I use snark; most blogs use snark. There’s even a little bit of snark in Kevin’s ‘graff there. It’s a great question, though, because I’m starting to doubt the blogosphere’s value altogether. I do actual reporting here; I even commit acts of journalism. I deconstruct media and also do video. If you want information, I try to provide it. But so far, no blog or tweet has managed to GOTV like phone banks and volunteers do. Kevin will have to wait for his answer because my jury’s still out.

Under the FDL post, Kevin left a comment in response to a purist (see?) who challenged him on the inclusion of MoveOn.org and other organizations as “liberal” because (see?) they aren’t liberal enough:

I found it interesting how a liberal establishment person who likes Obama could be critical of a PAC that he said was Jane’s when it had wide liberal backing.

Liberal establishment person? What?! As far as blogging goes, Jane Hamsher is “the establishment,” not Matt Osborne. I live in a small Alabama town, the heart of Arianna’s Third World America, where I operate this blog on a WordPress shoestring. Jane has people to handle the template for her. I coded this template myself in Notepad. Establishment?!

Perhaps Kevin means that I’m defending the ‘establishment.’ If so, then I’m doing a strange job of it. My half-hour documentaries on Appalachia Rising and School of the Americas Watch featured plenty of anti-establishment buzz. I recorded 114 people getting arrested in front of the White House. What part of that served the ‘establishment’?

Nor am I critical of the PAC’s liberal donors, but Hamsher’s apparent abuse of their trust. So far, I have found one progressive candidate who received $5000 in PAC funds and went on to lose his primary by a Texas mile. That is out of some $285,000 dollars raised and spent in two years, much of it on FDL and Jane Hamsher.

My caution to Kevin — as well as to other bloggers still doing good work at FDL — is that when the big liberals figure her out, the fall may be tremendous. You do not want to be underneath her.

Read Gosztola’s piece here.

About Matt Osborne

Veteran blogging the culture wars from Alabama. Video journalist, mash-up artist, aspiring novelist, and metalhead. Expect bunnies, geekery, dark humor, and snarky empirical analysis to annoy idealists of all stripes. You can follow me on Twitter, but be ready 'cause it might get loud.
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  • Anonymous

    Thanks for answering my questions, Matt. I expect your readers will discuss what I said and dissect it. Some “Firebaggers” will probably be here to defend Hamsher and possibly what I wrote, I don’t know. I linked to it in my post on FDL.

    I think we are in agreement on much and I don’t think you are a part of the liberal establishment. So, I wish to change that statement. I just think you are way too forgiving of President Obama and the Democratic Party’s shortcomings.

    I appreciate your work in defense of Appalachians and I liked your video on the School of Americas.

    I look forward to more debate and discussion.

  • Amadeus482000

    Gosztola crystallizes it here:

    “Osborne and his readers on Osborne Ink hate the fact that Hamsher pushes candidates to tug the party in a direction that is less corporate and less authoritarian.”

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    “There is no party of no in their universe, no obstruction, no powerful interests, no adoption of any position that puts blame anywhere except the White House.”

    Yep a full-throated defense of Obama’s results, framed as a full-throated attack on Hamsher for her criticism of the same unrelated reasons character flaws.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Yep a full-throated defense of Obama’s results, framed as a full-throated attack on Hamsher for
    her criticism of the same
    unrelated reasons
    her alleged character flaws

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    While Hamsher fought hard for the public option and other critical legislation, supports holding those accountable who started that immoral war in Iraq, the outing of Plame etc. She does not like to be challenged or questioned. When someone does challenge her thinking. Either the moderators over at FDL or Jane herself will attack that questioner. Happens quite frequently over there.

    Go check out Hamshers response to being challenged. (mondoweiss Firedoglake controversy). When she is in the national spotlight allegedly representing progressives on Washington Journal and else where she will never ever even whisper about the Israeli Palestinian conflict when she is listing the issues that progressives are angry with the Obama administration about. Not even a whisper. Glenn Greenwald is the best speaker for progressives. Goes where Jane will not go and far beyond

    FDL bans people when they question or challenge Hamsher. She throws hissy fits, attacks and never ever admits that she could have made a mistake.

    A moderator Rayne over at FDL has basically eliminated the debate on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. They banned Leen and all of her post about Iran, Israel, Palestine, etc. Eliminated all of the post as well of all of the thousands of comments from participants who linked legislation, international documents having to do with these issues etc.

    Jane is as radical and unable to accept challenges as many on the extreme right. I would also ask her why she jumped on the legalize marijuana bus and now seems to have jumped off. That certainly did seem opportunist.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I can’t even make sense of what you just said, but if you think that’s an attack specific to Hamsher then think again.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I think FDLers are way too obsessed with Obama. I don’t defend the Democratic Party’s shortcomings at all.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Right, that’s what I hate, is that Hamsher pushes candidates to be more libertarian and less corporate tools. Right. It’s not the way she uses that as an excuse to undermine the process of legislation, it’s that I hate her for pushing candidates. That she actually doesn’t push.

    You people do live in a strange universe.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    This is good: “Criticism of this nature toward Hamsher is purist and sanctimonious.” because it points to something that is very important, President Obama’s self-indulgent diatribe against that part of his base that objected, on specific and substantive grounds, to his tax deal. I think much of the rancor between folks on the left, was keyed by this.

    What happened? The leader cleaved his based to get his tax deal through, dissuaded dissent and attacked part of his base; it was “with me or against me,” which I reject as a false choice. I’m with him on his goals and I want to help push him toward them with more effetive policy.

    What do I mean? Specifically, the payroll tax holiday is not only unpopular, it is seriously problematic going forward for this important social program. The tax holiday means we are defunding Soc Dec (by 2% for all income levels) to such an extent that we will have to borrow to pay out benefits. This is hammer that will be use against those of us who do not want Soc Sec benefits to be reduced. Soc Sec is a PAID BENEFIT. We all paid in, in EVERY paycheck – for me 35 years.

    This $900 Billion is bigger than the stimulus – and we need a stimulus – by why not push for one that economists agree would be more effective? There’s room for movement in the framework, why not set the agenda for the movement toward good/effective ideas and away from more taxes cut bonuses for the wealthy?

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    Hamsher tried to buy Dkos’ Recommended List, makes shady deals with Grover Norquist, smears those with honest disagreements with her as “corporate shills” and yet her little cult of personality continues to defend her as “principled.” If those are progressive principles then just call me a Liberal.

    “Haters gotta hate. Jane Hamsher just figured out a way to make a buck off of it” — Unknown (but probably a corporate shill obamabot)

  • Amadeus482000

    It’s the use of either/or binaries like this that are particularly frightening in this charged political climate. I was shocked and outrage when Bush used the “with us or against us” nonsense on the back of 9/11 victims, and I’m downright offended to hear that type of all-or-nothing argument now being made on the backs of those suffering from the economic catastrophe.

  • Anonymous

    What do you mean when you write “obsessed with Obama”? They pay too much attention to his “faults” and do not focus on what “good” he has done for the country?

    I’m not going to go back and look at the history of your blog and pick out posts to condemn you with. I am not out to get you. But, I do see you have written a lot about the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, wingnuts, Glenn Beck, etc.

    I happen to think the Democrats have been a failure when it comes to counteracting the propaganda that has been used to misinform Americans and make them fearful of government. To what extent have you covered that? Is there a value in talking about that? Or is it good enough to just “assassinate” and take down Republicans or Tea Partiers with posts similar to the one you put up on Jane Hamsher yesterday?

    These libertarians or Tea Partiers are angry and they feel the liberal class has betrayed them. While I heavily disagree with their agenda, I can understand why they have lashed out against government. I can understand why they despise liberalism. I think liberals have failed and that failure must be confronted or else what we will have more of in our country’s future is Tea Party politics. We will have fascism.

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    “same unrelated reasons character flaws”? I get spam email like that all the time.

    Anyway,

    Hamsher’s results have been divisive, and otherwise impotent. Obama has already made historic strides as POTUS. It’s amazing what one knows if one doesn’t limit oneself to reading only Hamsher-approved propaganda.

  • Wendylefty

    Don’t you mean 53 Senators?

  • Amadeus482000

    Now you’re just being outright disingenuous. Hamsher is in the title of your post, Osborne, and is mentioned by name 18 times.

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    Polling does not reflect the “cleave your base” meme. Firebaggers need to learn to accept that they are a small fraction of the liberal movement, much less the Democratic Party or the USA, and act accordingly.

    Also, Jane robbed you blind: she’s a grifter.

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    Actually, I dislike Hamsher because she’s a liar, a smear-monger and a grifter. Do you know where you PAC money went?

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    “Specific” Hamsher is just an awesome, symptomatic, Cable News Idiot Head, grifter example of the paucity of strategy from Team JaneCult.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Ask Harman why she was so cozy with Alan Grayson, Weiner who are both liberal on domestic issues and yet turn hard right (wrong) on Iran, Israel Palestine, illegal settlements etc. When will alleged progressive be consistent on these issues. Glenn Greenwald is but Jane Hamsher is not.

    Also ask Jane why she jumped on the legalize marijuana bus and then seems to have jumped off. Definitely seemed opportunistic.

    Ask Jane and Rayne why they have banned so many people when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian issue over at FDl. And ask Rayne why when people started asking about particular people that they banned (no cursing etc) (leen) that Rayne did not jump on almost everytime as they had when Leen would post comments or challenge Jane. Why was Rayne such a coward on this post and not jump in and explain what FDL had done

    Go check out this thread

    Arab Writers Strike at Daily Kos

    #
    warpublican October 27th, 2010 at 6:56 am «

    The Firedogleft would be making a much better case if comments were not routinly censored on this very board…I’ve never had a comment tossed from Kos – I’ve had numerous comments tossed here – usually because I won’t conform to FireDogLeft orthodoxy… Let’s see if this comment makes it on board…

    #
    klynn October 27th, 2010 at 7:14 am «

    Wish Leen were here to comment on this.

    *
    mattcarmody October 27th, 2010 at 10:36 am «

    what happened to leen?

    o
    klynn October 27th, 2010 at 10:57 am «

    I am not sure. I do recall a post where she asked a question about when certain people in the media were going to address the I/P conflict with a strong voice.

    There was a bit of dust stirred up over the question.

    The I/P conflict was a core issue for Leen and her views on human rights and our national security.

    #
    Larue October 27th, 2010 at 10:33 am «

    SKF, regarding Leen:

    IMHO, should have included incessant and continual rehashing of same o same o, ongoing diatribes of vitriol, what often appeared to be the ramblings and incoherent mutterings of the disorganized . . . I offer CTuttle as an example of someone who presents the issue (I/P) often but always in a manner that’s informative, new, up to date and without the side effects (affects?) Leen brought to bear on the subject.

    I wore my scroll bar tool out bypassing Leen.

    *
    klynn October 27th, 2010 at 10:40 am «

    Yet, she brought first hand interviews with pacifists and humanitarian workers addressing the I/P conflict. We no longer have that dynamic to read.

    o
    thatvisionthing October 27th, 2010 at 12:59 pm «

    Thanks for saying that. I loved Leen’s passion. I thought Jane respected her too and fielded Leen’s complaints well. Is she banned or did she throw a fit and leave? I hope she comes back.

    o
    thatvisionthing October 27th, 2010 at 1:00 pm «

    And that was a reply to klynn @10:40 a.m. Something’s screwy here.

  • Amadeus482000

    Because hey, why go after the GOP and Blue Dogs that are frothing at the mouth to block any and all parts of Obama’s agenda when there’s a left-wing blogger to pick on?

    My guess is that the Republicans have so successfully bullied you– like many anti-Change Democrats– into complicity, that you take the easy and comfortable route of attacking someone with whom you agree far more often. Why risk getting attacked and bullied further by your real opposition when you can carry the mantle of the bully and bring it to bear on an ally?

    This is how it works in the schoolyard, in the GOP, and– frighteningly these days– among an increasing number of Democrats.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    She should be defended. She has worked hard for the middle class. But her over blown ego and inability to be appropriately challenged has been shown time and time again. This is a serious flaw

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “Many of Jane’s cool kids” — there, I think we’ve found another example of exactly what that ‘graff is about.

  • Amadeus482000

    “Historic strides” only if you count the last 30 years as history, and nothing else…

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Your binaries won’t amount to much when four million backs are added to the 99ers. I note it isn’t the prospect of their losing benefits that shocks your conscience, but the mention of that prospect. That’s exactly the sort of “dear leader” mentality you’ve been projecting on me: how DARE I talk about the reality of four million Americans facing loss of benefits.

    It’s dissonant.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Eighty-three. I’m referring to last night’s Senate vote.

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    I think one of the things Glenn and Jane’s supporters don’t get is that from their sketchy (one PAC expert called it “egregious”) PAC to their ad hominem attacks on their opponents to their disingenuous to outright lying reporting (see Kagan, and/or Nate Silver’s debate with FDL over marginal tax rates), they’ve both developed a reputation for being Unreliable Narrators.

    And I realize why: both Glenn and Jane have taken the position that their lies and misrepresentations are justified by their ends. Unfortunately, many of us simply do not care to have to fact-check every blogger we read, so we have dismissed them both.

    Unreliable Narrators.

  • http://twitter.com/LftHndMn LeftHandMan

    I think one of the things Glenn and Jane’s supporters don’t get is that from their sketchy (one PAC expert called it “egregious”) PAC to their ad hominem attacks on their opponents to their disingenuous to outright lying reporting (see Kagan, and/or Nate Silver’s debate with FDL over marginal tax rates), they’ve both developed a reputation for being Unreliable Narrators.

    And I realize why: both Glenn and Jane have taken the position that their lies and misrepresentations are justified by their ends. Unfortunately, many of us simply do not care to have to fact-check every blogger we read, so we have dismissed them both.

    Unreliable Narrators.

  • Anonymous

    Why do they have to “accept” they are a “small fraction”?

  • Anonymous

    Why do they have to “accept” they are a “small fraction”?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Let’s put it this way, Kevin: by mid 2009 the GOP had decided to make the midterm a referendum on Obama. The entire gamut of right-wing propaganda became all about tying everything to Obama. They nationalized an election and defied O’Neil’s Law — and Jane HELPED them.

    To what extent have I covered Democratic failure? Gee, Kevin, watch the video up there — I made it a year ago. I’ve been writing about this a lot lately and mean to write more; but as to what good that does, I say the jury’s still out.

    As far as fascism goes, I think we’re already there. I don’t think Hamsher has hurt the oligarchs, in fact she keeps helping them.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Let’s put it this way, Kevin: by mid 2009 the GOP had decided to make the midterm a referendum on Obama. The entire gamut of right-wing propaganda became all about tying everything to Obama. They nationalized an election and defied O’Neil’s Law — and Jane HELPED them.

    To what extent have I covered Democratic failure? Gee, Kevin, watch the video up there — I made it a year ago. I’ve been writing about this a lot lately and mean to write more; but as to what good that does, I say the jury’s still out.

    As far as fascism goes, I think we’re already there. I don’t think Hamsher has hurt the oligarchs, in fact she keeps helping them.

  • Amadeus482000

    It’s somewhat unfortunate for LeftHandMan that he doesn’t realize the cat’s already out of the bag.

    The anti-change status-quo have failed– quite miserably– to confine media debate to their corporate boardroom-approved terms and boundaries… And so the staunch old guard defenders are left to their veal pens to bloviate ad nauseum about that which occurs outside the cast iron gates and barbed wire. And that’s precisely why, as Gosztola has stated, the nasty and venomous polemics against pro-change liberals only emanate from echo tunnels like this one.

  • Amadeus482000

    It’s somewhat unfortunate for LeftHandMan that he doesn’t realize the cat’s already out of the bag.

    The anti-change status-quo have failed– quite miserably– to confine media debate to their corporate boardroom-approved terms and boundaries… And so the staunch old guard defenders are left to their veal pens to bloviate ad nauseum about that which occurs outside the cast iron gates and barbed wire. And that’s precisely why, as Gosztola has stated, the nasty and venomous polemics against pro-change liberals only emanate from echo tunnels like this one.

  • Anonymous

    What he said. All of it.

  • Anonymous

    What he said. All of it.

  • http://twitter.com/MeRhoda Rhoda

    I just found this blog and I gotta say that was an excellent post.

    ITA, there are some good bloggers at FDL that are going to be crushed by Hamsher if they’re not careful.

  • http://twitter.com/MeRhoda Rhoda

    I just found this blog and I gotta say that was an excellent post.

    ITA, there are some good bloggers at FDL that are going to be crushed by Hamsher if they’re not careful.

  • Amadeus482000

    They’re actually your binaries, Osborne. Do you stand up and take ownership of the words you write here, or do you back down, the way you backed down from the GOP bullies to reach your comfort zone?

    And by all means, please do spend some time speaking about those who are disenfranchised by these deals, as I’ve been doing in the comments the last couple of days (causing only a string of ad hominems from your pen-mates). Don’t worry, though… I’m not holding my breath…

  • Amadeus482000

    They’re actually your binaries, Osborne. Do you stand up and take ownership of the words you write here, or do you back down, the way you backed down from the GOP bullies to reach your comfort zone?

    And by all means, please do spend some time speaking about those who are disenfranchised by these deals, as I’ve been doing in the comments the last couple of days (causing only a string of ad hominems from your pen-mates). Don’t worry, though… I’m not holding my breath…

  • Amadeus482000

    That statement could be made about every left-leaning political media figure in the United States. Unfortunately though, in politics we have to play with the hand we are dealt with…

  • Amadeus482000

    That statement could be made about every left-leaning political media figure in the United States. Unfortunately though, in politics we have to play with the hand we are dealt with…

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    What kind of success do you attribute to FDL “when it comes to counteracting the propaganda that has been used to misinform Americans and make them fearful of government.” ?

    The pose of FDL and Greenwald and similar to be objective, above the battle, principled idealists is offensive especially considering the lack of even the most elementary journalistic standards at FDL. When Jane apologizes to Dick Durbin for lying about what he said to the Deficit Commission or to Obama for a series of lies starting at least as far back as the Rezko bullshit she published during the primaries, you might regain some credibility. Otherwise your complaints are self-serving AND self-deception at the same time.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    What kind of success do you attribute to FDL “when it comes to counteracting the propaganda that has been used to misinform Americans and make them fearful of government.” ?

    The pose of FDL and Greenwald and similar to be objective, above the battle, principled idealists is offensive especially considering the lack of even the most elementary journalistic standards at FDL. When Jane apologizes to Dick Durbin for lying about what he said to the Deficit Commission or to Obama for a series of lies starting at least as far back as the Rezko bullshit she published during the primaries, you might regain some credibility. Otherwise your complaints are self-serving AND self-deception at the same time.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    That’s such a delightfully inside-out universe, there. First because I’ve never seen Jane go after Republicans (though I’ve seen her call for a FOX boycott and then wind up *on* FOX bashing Democrats). The cognitive dissonance is palpable: I’ve got a five-minute mashup up there bashing Blue Dogs and Republicans, and spent far more time on it than I’ve spent writing Hamsher posts.

    But do go on. Tell me about being “successfully bullied” by Republicans (really? That’s a scream). Tell me how I’m an “anti-change Democrat” (hysterical). Whatever you do, though, be sure to ignore the blatant fraud of your Dear Leader.

    That’s right, Hamsher is your Dear Leader. Everything you say about me is actually about YOU.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    That’s such a delightfully inside-out universe, there. First because I’ve never seen Jane go after Republicans (though I’ve seen her call for a FOX boycott and then wind up *on* FOX bashing Democrats). The cognitive dissonance is palpable: I’ve got a five-minute mashup up there bashing Blue Dogs and Republicans, and spent far more time on it than I’ve spent writing Hamsher posts.

    But do go on. Tell me about being “successfully bullied” by Republicans (really? That’s a scream). Tell me how I’m an “anti-change Democrat” (hysterical). Whatever you do, though, be sure to ignore the blatant fraud of your Dear Leader.

    That’s right, Hamsher is your Dear Leader. Everything you say about me is actually about YOU.

  • Amadeus482000

    Typical wildfire claims made by Osborne– of course with no source citation or hard data to be found.

    Pot/kettle much?

  • Amadeus482000

    Typical wildfire claims made by Osborne– of course with no source citation or hard data to be found.

    Pot/kettle much?

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    OOH! “Veal pens” – fresh, clear, and so illuminating. It’s as if FDL is conducting a seminar on Orwells remarks that murky language filled with catch phrases and meaningless jargon is a necessary disguise for the commissar class – or the would-be commissar class in FDL’s case.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    OOH! “Veal pens” – fresh, clear, and so illuminating. It’s as if FDL is conducting a seminar on Orwells remarks that murky language filled with catch phrases and meaningless jargon is a necessary disguise for the commissar class – or the would-be commissar class in FDL’s case.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    You have a point. But the left can have as many road blocks up as the right (wrong). Never hearts to take a full inventory of what has taken place, mistakes, biases, inability to be challenged etc. I would say over at FDL the majority of the comment,s opinions etc all basically on the same page.

    Rayne (moderator over there) and Jane have done their best to wipe out dissenters or other points of view

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    You have a point. But the left can have as many road blocks up as the right (wrong). Never hearts to take a full inventory of what has taken place, mistakes, biases, inability to be challenged etc. I would say over at FDL the majority of the comment,s opinions etc all basically on the same page.

    Rayne (moderator over there) and Jane have done their best to wipe out dissenters or other points of view

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Glenn Greenwalds threads are wide open. All sorts of views, information even criticism of Glenn. Sorry but Jane Hamsher is far far more closed down to challenges than Greenwald, Katrina. Degree of severity. Far more closed down to differing opinions at Firedoglake.

    And that can not be said about every “left leaning political media figure” some are far more closed down than others. And Jane is one pf the lefties who cannot take a good and relevant challenge.
    Glenn can. Katrina can

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Glenn Greenwalds threads are wide open. All sorts of views, information even criticism of Glenn. Sorry but Jane Hamsher is far far more closed down to challenges than Greenwald, Katrina. Degree of severity. Far more closed down to differing opinions at Firedoglake.

    And that can not be said about every “left leaning political media figure” some are far more closed down than others. And Jane is one pf the lefties who cannot take a good and relevant challenge.
    Glenn can. Katrina can

  • Amadeus482000

    You missed my point– I said that statement *could* be made, not that the statement would necessarily be true. But it’s fascinating that you immediately jumped to that conclusion in light of the ongoing stonewall and blacklisting of pro-Change media figures…

  • Amadeus482000

    You missed my point– I said that statement *could* be made, not that the statement would necessarily be true. But it’s fascinating that you immediately jumped to that conclusion in light of the ongoing stonewall and blacklisting of pro-Change media figures…

  • Amadeus482000

    …And I would say over here the majority of comments, opinions etc. are all basically on the same page. Accepting dissent means accepting exactly the views you absolutely despise. Otherwise, you do not accept dissent.

  • Amadeus482000

    …And I would say over here the majority of comments, opinions etc. are all basically on the same page. Accepting dissent means accepting exactly the views you absolutely despise. Otherwise, you do not accept dissent.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    The president harshly and angrily criticized everyone ON THE LEFT who voiced a criticism of his tax deal. Assuming the left is his base, by criticizing those who criticized his proposed tax compromise he cleaved his base. If you don’t like my choice of words, fine, choose your own, but that is the dynamic I was referring to.

    I don’t know what polling, if any, you’re referring to. Maybe my explanation will help you understand my point, if not that then the manner in which you take issue with those who disagree with Osborne’s post.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    The president harshly and angrily criticized everyone ON THE LEFT who voiced a criticism of his tax deal. Assuming the left is his base, by criticizing those who criticized his proposed tax compromise he cleaved his base. If you don’t like my choice of words, fine, choose your own, but that is the dynamic I was referring to.

    I don’t know what polling, if any, you’re referring to. Maybe my explanation will help you understand my point, if not that then the manner in which you take issue with those who disagree with Osborne’s post.

  • Amadeus482000

    There you go again with those Bush-like playground extremes. If I criticize what I perceive as cheap shots taken at _____, it must mean _____ is my “Dear Leader.” Oh, and don’t forget to throw the Kim dynasty and the Ayatollah in there for good measure…

    Really, I’m sorry the “cool kids” didn’t accept you on the playground, Obsorne… But if you continue to cede ground to your class enemies at this rate, you’ll be left with precisely the corporate autocracy you asked for.

  • Amadeus482000

    There you go again with those Bush-like playground extremes. If I criticize what I perceive as cheap shots taken at _____, it must mean _____ is my “Dear Leader.” Oh, and don’t forget to throw the Kim dynasty and the Ayatollah in there for good measure…

    Really, I’m sorry the “cool kids” didn’t accept you on the playground, Obsorne… But if you continue to cede ground to your class enemies at this rate, you’ll be left with precisely the corporate autocracy you asked for.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    You will need a new derogatory nickname and line of personal attack to vilify Paul Rosenburg at Open Left:

    “This is not a Democratic presidency” by: Paul Rosenberg

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    You will need a new derogatory nickname and line of personal attack to vilify Paul Rosenburg at Open Left:

    “This is not a Democratic presidency” by: Paul Rosenberg

  • Warpublican

    The firedogleft suffers from obvious racism – no doubt about it – they lavish praise on past democrats – such as FDR (who interred the Japanese) and LBJ (who lied to America to invade Vietnam) and Clinton – who brought us DADT, NAFTA – and DOMA – but consider Obama a corporatist fascist – and sell out. They love Hillary – who voted for the Iraq war, patriot act, etc – and was against Gay marriage – but tear into Obama for those same positions. And worse, the site censors any criticism of Queen Jane. my issue with Hamsher is her lack of any experience pertaining to politics – she’s a film producer who wrote one book about the film she produced (unlike, say, Glenn greewald who is an intellect and an author and a practiced attorney) – but for some reason, she’s adored – while Obama – who is highly educated, served in the Senate – and actually worked on the ground with Chicago’s poor is despised. That’s because the Firedogleft is racist to the core…

  • Warpublican

    The firedogleft suffers from obvious racism – no doubt about it – they lavish praise on past democrats – such as FDR (who interred the Japanese) and LBJ (who lied to America to invade Vietnam) and Clinton – who brought us DADT, NAFTA – and DOMA – but consider Obama a corporatist fascist – and sell out. They love Hillary – who voted for the Iraq war, patriot act, etc – and was against Gay marriage – but tear into Obama for those same positions. And worse, the site censors any criticism of Queen Jane. my issue with Hamsher is her lack of any experience pertaining to politics – she’s a film producer who wrote one book about the film she produced (unlike, say, Glenn greewald who is an intellect and an author and a practiced attorney) – but for some reason, she’s adored – while Obama – who is highly educated, served in the Senate – and actually worked on the ground with Chicago’s poor is despised. That’s because the Firedogleft is racist to the core…

  • Amadeus482000

    Oh, but without Hamsher, you have no article to write here, and this page doesn’t exist, does it? But that’s what capitalism is all about in the media– using people and personalities as commodities for personal gain.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    “Norquist/ATR clarify that they back the tax cut deal. No serious opposition on the right. http://slate.me/g3Tefl” – DaveWeigel

    Stunning really, when the right ran against Obama deficits, which were mostly Bush deficits because of tax cuts, off-budget wars, and un paid-for Medicare part D.

    So where do we stand?
    1. Obama for tax cut deal.
    2. Norquist for tax cut deal.
    3. No serious (impediment) opposition for the tax cut deal on the right.

    4. Hamsher opposes specific aspects of the tax cut deal for clearly stated reasons and for doing so is called ‘sanctimonious’. When I hear Obama’s anger expressed in such a way, the first thing that crosses my mind is the calculus that steered him toward that choice.

    Republicans are happy. You apparently like the deal too. Do you like it as much as President Obama and the Republicans do? $190,000,000,000 in tax cuts for the rich — the least stimulative DEFICIT-MAKER — and $0.00 for the 99ers, arguably the ones most in need. Good deal? 2% payroll tax holiday that deficit funds Social Security trust? Good deal?

    I think there’s a better way and I hope they make the changes.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    “Norquist/ATR clarify that they back the tax cut deal. No serious opposition on the right. http://slate.me/g3Tefl” – DaveWeigel

    Stunning really, when the right ran against Obama deficits, which were mostly Bush deficits because of tax cuts, off-budget wars, and un paid-for Medicare part D.

    So where do we stand?
    1. Obama for tax cut deal.
    2. Norquist for tax cut deal.
    3. No serious (impediment) opposition for the tax cut deal on the right.

    4. Hamsher opposes specific aspects of the tax cut deal for clearly stated reasons and for doing so is called ‘sanctimonious’. When I hear Obama’s anger expressed in such a way, the first thing that crosses my mind is the calculus that steered him toward that choice.

    Republicans are happy. You apparently like the deal too. Do you like it as much as President Obama and the Republicans do? $190,000,000,000 in tax cuts for the rich — the least stimulative DEFICIT-MAKER — and $0.00 for the 99ers, arguably the ones most in need. Good deal? 2% payroll tax holiday that deficit funds Social Security trust? Good deal?

    I think there’s a better way and I hope they make the changes.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    So Democrats shouldn’t counter the tea party — the movement should do that, as I’ve been arguing almost since the inauguration.

    I would agree, but there is no “movement”. The teabaggers on the left e.g. ragtag McKinney voters, some FDLers, some HuffPosters, and prochoice PUMAs like T Marsh, etc., seem to think clicking a “donate” button or repeating thought-stopping claptrap like “this isn’t the change I voted for” is being part of a “movement”.

    They can’t even get their crap together to sustain backing one candidate for more than a year. It seems any understanding of movement politics died with the last round of sloganeering the left saw, which was with the Rainbow Coalition’s “keep hope alive”. Hope died on the teabagging left, half a generation ago.

  • Anonymous

    Blaming Obama when the entire weeniarchy of the Democratic Party is the real problem absolves them from having to take any action, because they might actually have to change themselves. And they can’t have that.

    I want credit for coining the term “weeniarchy” btw.

  • Anonymous

    Blaming Obama when the entire weeniarchy of the Democratic Party is the real problem absolves them from having to take any action, because they might actually have to change themselves. And they can’t have that.

    I want credit for coining the term “weeniarchy” btw.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    I think Paul personifies the mediocrity and high self-regard of the “left”

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    I think Paul personifies the mediocrity and high self-regard of the “left”

  • Anonymous

    Typical substanceless insult and dishonest assertion by Hamsterbot. When are you ever going to say something that has any basis in fact, Bubbles?

  • Anonymous

    Typical substanceless insult and dishonest assertion by Hamsterbot. When are you ever going to say something that has any basis in fact, Bubbles?

  • Amadeus482000

    Thankfully for Osborne and co., Dick Armey and FreedomWorks– who endorsed this deal– are more than happy to take the self-styled Democratic “base” under their coddling wing. Off they go, strolling into a technicolor sunset, where they’ll never have to deal with the likes of Hamsher again…

  • Amadeus482000

    Thankfully for Osborne and co., Dick Armey and FreedomWorks– who endorsed this deal– are more than happy to take the self-styled Democratic “base” under their coddling wing. Off they go, strolling into a technicolor sunset, where they’ll never have to deal with the likes of Hamsher again…

  • Anonymous

    If she’s not authoritarian, why does she ban users who go against her?

  • Anonymous

    If she’s not authoritarian, why does she ban users who go against her?

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    My vote goes to “rosenbagger”.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    My vote goes to “rosenbagger”.

  • Anonymous

    There you go again, projecting your own faults on everyone else. It’s your side that decided to attack Obama alone, and you complain when someone actually hits you back.

    You sound more like a GOP kool kid every day.

  • Anonymous

    There you go again, projecting your own faults on everyone else. It’s your side that decided to attack Obama alone, and you complain when someone actually hits you back.

    You sound more like a GOP kool kid every day.

  • Amadeus482000

    Nor is the tea party a “movement” – it’s Armey, Koch, and co. astroturfing.

    So the question becomes: How do Republicans deal with their non-movement, and how do Democrats deal with theirs?

  • Amadeus482000

    Nor is the tea party a “movement” – it’s Armey, Koch, and co. astroturfing.

    So the question becomes: How do Republicans deal with their non-movement, and how do Democrats deal with theirs?

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Closet PUMAs. I’ve had that sense of them ever since Hamsher went Grover. The feeling has yet to leave.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Closet PUMAs. I’ve had that sense of them ever since Hamsher went Grover. The feeling has yet to leave.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    I think she may need a Halls menthol.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    I think she may need a Halls menthol.

  • Amadeus482000

    That’s EXACTLY what’s going on here. Well said, ôl ə twit′ər! :)

  • Amadeus482000

    That’s EXACTLY what’s going on here. Well said, ôl ə twit′ər! :)

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Her character flaws are vibrantly in evidence. The PAC that has had nothing to show except cash flow to various Jane friends and her own pockets. Selling the FDL list to herself.

    The deceptive MSNBC video clip she posted two days ago where she cut off Ezra Klein mid-sentence and told her credulous readers that he was agreeing with her. The FULL clip shows he was making the opposite point, and the next word out of his mouth after “I agree with Jane” was, “BUT.”

    I don’t bother with FDL, because of the heavy censorship and hysterical leader-worship. Her deceitful editing of that little clip should tell you that you’re getting incomplete information. It’s a shame that instead of Glenn pulling her up in the credibility department, she’s pulling him down.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Her character flaws are vibrantly in evidence. The PAC that has had nothing to show except cash flow to various Jane friends and her own pockets. Selling the FDL list to herself.

    The deceptive MSNBC video clip she posted two days ago where she cut off Ezra Klein mid-sentence and told her credulous readers that he was agreeing with her. The FULL clip shows he was making the opposite point, and the next word out of his mouth after “I agree with Jane” was, “BUT.”

    I don’t bother with FDL, because of the heavy censorship and hysterical leader-worship. Her deceitful editing of that little clip should tell you that you’re getting incomplete information. It’s a shame that instead of Glenn pulling her up in the credibility department, she’s pulling him down.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    The Republicans co-opted theirs, which was the point of the astroturfing. Right now the fire/leftybaggers are just fomenting. The D’s might not have to do anything, depending who the R’s put on their ballot for 2012. If they’re dumb enough to put one of the crazies on their ticket, that will bring the leftybaggers back on board by default.

    And if the Republicans win because the leftybaggers are dumb enough to stay home in 2012 because Robert Gibbs and Rahm Emanuel called them a couple mean names, then they will seriously have no shortage of things to bellache about. Though, one does get the sense they are happier in that condition.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    The Republicans co-opted theirs, which was the point of the astroturfing. Right now the fire/leftybaggers are just fomenting. The D’s might not have to do anything, depending who the R’s put on their ballot for 2012. If they’re dumb enough to put one of the crazies on their ticket, that will bring the leftybaggers back on board by default.

    And if the Republicans win because the leftybaggers are dumb enough to stay home in 2012 because Robert Gibbs and Rahm Emanuel called them a couple mean names, then they will seriously have no shortage of things to bellache about. Though, one does get the sense they are happier in that condition.

  • Kscoyote

    Actually, Jane hated Clinton before she hated O. She’s never seen a Dem she’s liked.

  • Kscoyote

    Actually, Jane hated Clinton before she hated O. She’s never seen a Dem she’s liked.

  • Kscoyote

    She also started that nasty lie against Rahm Emmanuel. He was speaking about a tactic, not about “Progressives.”

    I’m sure it was due to her own guilt that she took it personally.

  • Kscoyote

    She also started that nasty lie against Rahm Emmanuel. He was speaking about a tactic, not about “Progressives.”

    I’m sure it was due to her own guilt that she took it personally.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    That’s plain silly. Bush’s with-us-or-agin-us is exactly the sort of attitude Hamsher displayed when she turned against Bernie Sanders and the Susan G. Komen Institute. I wonder how many resources they had to expend because Jane decided to go after Hadassah Leiberman for committing the crime of being Joe Leiberman’s wife.

    Hamsher is objectionable on two levels, both of which you ignore: her political actions, where, as Osborne observed, aside from the Fox boycott which she cheerfully violated, she does not attack the right, only the center and the left, and her financial dealings, which are demonstrably shady.

    When people are presented with such plain evidence of bad faith, and pass right over it, there’s no conclusion to make but that they are willingly blinkered followers.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    That’s plain silly. Bush’s with-us-or-agin-us is exactly the sort of attitude Hamsher displayed when she turned against Bernie Sanders and the Susan G. Komen Institute. I wonder how many resources they had to expend because Jane decided to go after Hadassah Leiberman for committing the crime of being Joe Leiberman’s wife.

    Hamsher is objectionable on two levels, both of which you ignore: her political actions, where, as Osborne observed, aside from the Fox boycott which she cheerfully violated, she does not attack the right, only the center and the left, and her financial dealings, which are demonstrably shady.

    When people are presented with such plain evidence of bad faith, and pass right over it, there’s no conclusion to make but that they are willingly blinkered followers.

  • Kscoyote

    Er, I thought Hamsher was for a Progressive Cause, not for personal gain. Or is this an admission that it’s ALL for personal gain in your estimation?

  • Kscoyote

    Er, I thought Hamsher was for a Progressive Cause, not for personal gain. Or is this an admission that it’s ALL for personal gain in your estimation?

  • Kscoyote

    But the Repubs have no shortcomings? Or are they less egregious in your estimation?

  • Kscoyote

    How many of Hamsher’s Candidates have been elected?

    They are rejected by the electorate. I can’t think of a single candidate – can you?

  • Kscoyote

    How many of Hamsher’s Candidates have been elected?

    They are rejected by the electorate. I can’t think of a single candidate – can you?

  • Kscoyote

    ER, how about Greenwald’s admission that the only support they give to Progressives is MORAL support.

    How about the receipts of the PAC where she charges herself for advertising herself?

  • Kscoyote

    ER, how about Greenwald’s admission that the only support they give to Progressives is MORAL support.

    How about the receipts of the PAC where she charges herself for advertising herself?

  • Kscoyote

    Really? Can you show me any evidence of this work for the middle class? It seems to me that she’s a millionaire/grifter who is working to the benefit of her SELF.

  • Kscoyote

    Really? Can you show me any evidence of this work for the middle class? It seems to me that she’s a millionaire/grifter who is working to the benefit of her SELF.

  • Kscoyote

    Robert Emmanuel did NOT call them names. Hamsher made that up out of thin air.

  • Kscoyote

    Robert Emmanuel did NOT call them names. Hamsher made that up out of thin air.

  • Anonymous

    Republicans are for the most part authoritarian corporatists. They are not less egregious at all. (And, I’m not surprised that you asked those questions in response to my comment. Usually, it’s hard to fathom being highly critical of Democrats AND Republicans. You’re supposed to be for Democrats and against Republicans or for Republicans and against Democrats. I’m sorry. I don’t do left-right politics. Both parties are pretty toxic to the country right now.)

  • Anonymous

    Republicans are for the most part authoritarian corporatists. They are not less egregious at all. (And, I’m not surprised that you asked those questions in response to my comment. Usually, it’s hard to fathom being highly critical of Democrats AND Republicans. You’re supposed to be for Democrats and against Republicans or for Republicans and against Democrats. I’m sorry. I don’t do left-right politics. Both parties are pretty toxic to the country right now.)

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    I know that about Rahm, but point is, this is conventional wisdom on the teabagging left, that they were called some mean names by the admin, oh boo hoo. So let’s all go poopy in our pants and not vote in 2010/2012. This, we are to believe, is supposed to be some kind of strategic “activism”. The lattebagger left wouldn’t last two seconds in the Civil Rights movement, feminist movement or gay rights movement any other movement that has defined left politics.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    I know that about Rahm, but point is, this is conventional wisdom on the teabagging left, that they were called some mean names by the admin, oh boo hoo. So let’s all go poopy in our pants and not vote in 2010/2012. This, we are to believe, is supposed to be some kind of strategic “activism”. The lattebagger left wouldn’t last two seconds in the Civil Rights movement, feminist movement or gay rights movement any other movement that has defined left politics.

  • Anonymous

    What does it matter?

  • Anonymous

    What does it matter?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Hamsher’s “blackface” pic was pretty awful.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Hamsher’s “blackface” pic was pretty awful.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Yuo made me laugh. Then I thought about it and wondered if everyone you disagree with is a form of (tea)bagger, to be dimissed without even looking at their position. Look at Paul’s argument. Debate it.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Yuo made me laugh. Then I thought about it and wondered if everyone you disagree with is a form of (tea)bagger, to be dimissed without even looking at their position. Look at Paul’s argument. Debate it.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I think of this blog as an honest search for the truth.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I think of this blog as an honest search for the truth.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Are you part of the left, just as mediocre and just as full of high self-regard? Nevermind its a distraction.

    Look at Paul’s arguments. Decide what you agree with and what you disagree with. Explain it to others-that’s how the marketplace of ideas is supposed to work, on the merit of the ideas. Try it. It’s fun.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Are you part of the left, just as mediocre and just as full of high self-regard? Nevermind its a distraction.

    Look at Paul’s arguments. Decide what you agree with and what you disagree with. Explain it to others-that’s how the marketplace of ideas is supposed to work, on the merit of the ideas. Try it. It’s fun.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Ah, yes. Teh Rahm Emmanuel Kool-Aid™. Like when Rahm wanted to use reconciliation in September ’09 and the Senate parliamentarian said no, and the narrative became “Rahm killed the public option”

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Ah, yes. Teh Rahm Emmanuel Kool-Aid™. Like when Rahm wanted to use reconciliation in September ’09 and the Senate parliamentarian said no, and the narrative became “Rahm killed the public option”

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    This is my first day here, but I am really enjoying this bogus binary of “pro-change”/”anti-change”.

    Let me guess: every left-literalist who fell for a presidential campaign slogan and are now running to FDL and PUMA sites to complain about their buyer’s remorse is “pro-change”.

    Right?

    Hilarious.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    This is my first day here, but I am really enjoying this bogus binary of “pro-change”/”anti-change”.

    Let me guess: every left-literalist who fell for a presidential campaign slogan and are now running to FDL and PUMA sites to complain about their buyer’s remorse is “pro-change”.

    Right?

    Hilarious.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Thank you for your kind words.

    I hope that other readers here at OsborneInc can tell from my tone that I make my best effort to not be hostile to other people on the left who disagree with me or that I disagree with. It’s hard becuase these are frustrating times. So I’ll take the hostility from the hostile, after all, we on the left need to be able to come together when it counts. It counts at election times right after the primary.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Thank you for your kind words.

    I hope that other readers here at OsborneInc can tell from my tone that I make my best effort to not be hostile to other people on the left who disagree with me or that I disagree with. It’s hard becuase these are frustrating times. So I’ll take the hostility from the hostile, after all, we on the left need to be able to come together when it counts. It counts at election times right after the primary.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I also dislike the deal. I’m not happy about it. I’d like to change the public discussion, but FDL and even Jane’s Huffposts have become choir events. If you’re looking for the cult (as many commenters seem to), it’s right there.

    All the netrooty outrage-ness hasn’t produced a better bill all year. Outrage is their business model, not a tactic for change.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I also dislike the deal. I’m not happy about it. I’d like to change the public discussion, but FDL and even Jane’s Huffposts have become choir events. If you’re looking for the cult (as many commenters seem to), it’s right there.

    All the netrooty outrage-ness hasn’t produced a better bill all year. Outrage is their business model, not a tactic for change.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    What have you done? As for that ‘self-styled Democratic “base”‘ you keep harping on, here:

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/06/5596757-obama-core-coalition-hardly-shattered

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    What have you done? As for that ‘self-styled Democratic “base”‘ you keep harping on, here:

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/06/5596757-obama-core-coalition-hardly-shattered

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    You can’t be serious. Here we have a PAC formed for advancing progressive candidates, and a blogger who attacks elected Democrats but never Republicans, (indeed, she partners with them!) and you don’t think it matters that she excoriates elected officials when she has never had any kind of success large or small outside of pocketing money meant to elect said left-of-center candidates?

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    You can’t be serious. Here we have a PAC formed for advancing progressive candidates, and a blogger who attacks elected Democrats but never Republicans, (indeed, she partners with them!) and you don’t think it matters that she excoriates elected officials when she has never had any kind of success large or small outside of pocketing money meant to elect said left-of-center candidates?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Thanks for this: “It seems any understanding of movement politics died with the last round of sloganeering the left saw, which was with the Rainbow Coalition’s ‘keep hope alive’. Hope died on the teabagging left, half a generation ago.”

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Thanks for this: “It seems any understanding of movement politics died with the last round of sloganeering the left saw, which was with the Rainbow Coalition’s ‘keep hope alive’. Hope died on the teabagging left, half a generation ago.”

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    I certainly don’t see too much space between the two parties on the tax deal. I don’t understand why Democrats don’t take 5 days and improve it. To me their talk is less than worthless if it doesn’t address the issues.

    I’m struck by how similar this bill is to TARP. Here’s the deal, we have to pass it now.

    Pres Obama called it a framework. Is it? Only in the limited context of the frame that changing it could upset the deal. I don’t call that a framework.

    Problem #1: The deal is a trap for Social Security.

    The deal will lower the payroll tax—the tax that funds the Social Security trust. This is a trap for Democrats. Republicans have been coming after Social Security for years and this cut is the biggest threat to the vital program in decades. It will cut one-third of Social Security’s funding this year alone and when we need to restore the payroll tax back to its current level, Republicans will cry “tax increases” and could gut it permanently. 1

    Problem #2: For nearly one in three workers, it’s a tax increase.

    Nearly 50 million working Americans—including all workers making less than $20,000 per year—and millions of federal, state, and municipal workers will see their taxes go up because of the deal.2

    Problem #3: The deal has not one but TWO millionaire bailouts.

    In addition to extending all the Bush income tax breaks for the top 2%, the deal will slash the estate tax. If Congress did nothing, next year the estate tax would be 55% and apply to everyone inheriting $1 million or more. But the deal reduces it to 35% and only people who inherit more than $5 million will have to pay. This second bailout will give a gigantic tax giveaway to a few thousand of the richest families in the country and add hundreds of billions to the national debt.3

    Problem #4: Unemployment help is insufficient and inadequate.

    While the deal extends unemployment benefits for another 13 months for people currently receiving it, millions of unemployed workers who’ve struggled the most and been out of work more than 99 weeks—since the giant Wall Street banks wrecked the economy—will get no help at all under the deal.4 It’s a gamble that there will be jobs in the next 13 months when the insurance runs out, but the tax cuts will go well beyond that. Better to just pass a stand-alone unemployment extension to help all struggling Americans.

    Problem #5: Tax giveaways to the rich are a terrible way to create jobs.

    Tax breaks for the rich are the least efficient way to create jobs and help the economy grow. In fact the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says extending all tax cuts would lower unemployment only 0.1% to 0.3% over the next year5 and that the cost of the tax deal would be $900 billion over the next five years.6

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    I certainly don’t see too much space between the two parties on the tax deal. I don’t understand why Democrats don’t take 5 days and improve it. To me their talk is less than worthless if it doesn’t address the issues.

    I’m struck by how similar this bill is to TARP. Here’s the deal, we have to pass it now.

    Pres Obama called it a framework. Is it? Only in the limited context of the frame that changing it could upset the deal. I don’t call that a framework.

    Problem #1: The deal is a trap for Social Security.

    The deal will lower the payroll tax—the tax that funds the Social Security trust. This is a trap for Democrats. Republicans have been coming after Social Security for years and this cut is the biggest threat to the vital program in decades. It will cut one-third of Social Security’s funding this year alone and when we need to restore the payroll tax back to its current level, Republicans will cry “tax increases” and could gut it permanently. 1

    Problem #2: For nearly one in three workers, it’s a tax increase.

    Nearly 50 million working Americans—including all workers making less than $20,000 per year—and millions of federal, state, and municipal workers will see their taxes go up because of the deal.2

    Problem #3: The deal has not one but TWO millionaire bailouts.

    In addition to extending all the Bush income tax breaks for the top 2%, the deal will slash the estate tax. If Congress did nothing, next year the estate tax would be 55% and apply to everyone inheriting $1 million or more. But the deal reduces it to 35% and only people who inherit more than $5 million will have to pay. This second bailout will give a gigantic tax giveaway to a few thousand of the richest families in the country and add hundreds of billions to the national debt.3

    Problem #4: Unemployment help is insufficient and inadequate.

    While the deal extends unemployment benefits for another 13 months for people currently receiving it, millions of unemployed workers who’ve struggled the most and been out of work more than 99 weeks—since the giant Wall Street banks wrecked the economy—will get no help at all under the deal.4 It’s a gamble that there will be jobs in the next 13 months when the insurance runs out, but the tax cuts will go well beyond that. Better to just pass a stand-alone unemployment extension to help all struggling Americans.

    Problem #5: Tax giveaways to the rich are a terrible way to create jobs.

    Tax breaks for the rich are the least efficient way to create jobs and help the economy grow. In fact the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says extending all tax cuts would lower unemployment only 0.1% to 0.3% over the next year5 and that the cost of the tax deal would be $900 billion over the next five years.6

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think it matters.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think it matters.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    So what about astroturf? How does that fact help? The GOP counted on fear, lies, and noise to distract us while they succeeded in making things worse. You have your wish; the blue Dogs are going near-extinct in January, and well may it profit your movement.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    So what about astroturf? How does that fact help? The GOP counted on fear, lies, and noise to distract us while they succeeded in making things worse. You have your wish; the blue Dogs are going near-extinct in January, and well may it profit your movement.

  • Anonymous

    Interesting. That’s not a binary I detect as I go through the comments here.

  • Anonymous

    Interesting. That’s not a binary I detect as I go through the comments here.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    OpenLeft stopped being interesting when @ThisBowers left. Like FDL, I enjoy writing great comments only to see them never post, so enjoy that saliva in your mouth another second.

    Done?

    OK. Oligarch tax cuts are the McConnell part of the plan. Four million unemployed Americans NOT GETTING CUT OFF is the Obama part, and also the incidental hostages Republicans cannot hold next year.

    This is kulturkampf, the continuation of war by other means. I take them at their word when they say they want Obama to fail and be a one-term president; so far, I have not seen either Greenwald or Hamsher or their PAC accomplish a goddamn thing.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    OpenLeft stopped being interesting when @ThisBowers left. Like FDL, I enjoy writing great comments only to see them never post, so enjoy that saliva in your mouth another second.

    Done?

    OK. Oligarch tax cuts are the McConnell part of the plan. Four million unemployed Americans NOT GETTING CUT OFF is the Obama part, and also the incidental hostages Republicans cannot hold next year.

    This is kulturkampf, the continuation of war by other means. I take them at their word when they say they want Obama to fail and be a one-term president; so far, I have not seen either Greenwald or Hamsher or their PAC accomplish a goddamn thing.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    True. I also get comments deleted over there, just like OpenLeft.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Thanks! Welcome back anytime.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I have to say, I’m interested to see the effect of changes at DK but I expect there will still be a lot of crossover. Same with the comments and narrative at HuffPo.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I have to say, I’m interested to see the effect of changes at DK but I expect there will still be a lot of crossover. Same with the comments and narrative at HuffPo.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Without the Jane Hamsher reference I wouldn’t have you driving up my hit counter would I? #seehowthatworks

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Without the Jane Hamsher reference I wouldn’t have you driving up my hit counter would I? #seehowthatworks

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    And coyote finds the cognitive dissonance.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    And coyote finds the cognitive dissonance.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Well, that’s succinct.

    To quote a friend of mine, ““What does it matter,” indeed?

    This isn’t about taking effective action. This is about getting face-time on CNN.”

    I’ll sum up:

    1. Doesn’t attack the Right.
    2. Partners with the Right.
    3. Completely ineffective.
    4. Questionable utilization of funds.
    5. One-note, nonstop attack on Democratic president, various members of the left, Democratic legislation.
    6. In which, thank god, speaking as one of the unemployed, she’s completely ineffective.

    But you’re good with that. OK!

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Well, that’s succinct.

    To quote a friend of mine, ““What does it matter,” indeed?

    This isn’t about taking effective action. This is about getting face-time on CNN.”

    I’ll sum up:

    1. Doesn’t attack the Right.
    2. Partners with the Right.
    3. Completely ineffective.
    4. Questionable utilization of funds.
    5. One-note, nonstop attack on Democratic president, various members of the left, Democratic legislation.
    6. In which, thank god, speaking as one of the unemployed, she’s completely ineffective.

    But you’re good with that. OK!

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    That cult is proving its existence to us in the comments section.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    That cult is proving its existence to us in the comments section.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    awful doesn’t begin to describe it. i find it incredibly frustrating that legions of so-called progressives are willing to overlook this. that blackface stunt is one step below flat-out calling obama a nigger.

    in response to one of my posts on the subject, a commenter at balloon juice said that i took her use of blackface out of context. OUT OF CONTEXT.

    another told me to go out and find evidence that black folks are frustrated. it’s a typical derailing tactic. accusing a person trying to highlight the struggles of marginalized people (LGBTQ, women, POCs) of overexaggerating, or taking shit out of context, or being too angry, all in a gambit to change the discussion.

    talk about apologists.

    moreover, people who are community organizers tend to remain community organizers at heart. if the richies are going to get to keep their tax cut, then obama made sure that the benefits to the less fortunate would outweigh the republicans need to coalesce more wealth for the wealthiest two percent.

    from what i can tell, hamsherites don’t give a rat’s ass about how the poor will be affected. they can only see “billionairetaxcutsbillionairetaxcuts.” she edited her appearance on the Last Word to make it seem like she knew what she was talking about because Ezra Klein “got her.” it was a lie. but will her sycophants go out and research her lies? nope. because no one who disagrees with her is allowed to post on her blog, so she’s created one giant circle jerk where everyone can grab the virtual penis of the person next to them and wank away to the glory that is Our Lady of Hamsher.

    It’s a shame. A few years ago, I was really impressed by the level of intelligent discussion going on in the netroots. Now, I wouldn’t visit DKos if my head was on fire, and I only read the FDL comment section to marvel at how the inmates have taken over the asylum.

    If you have to moderate every critical comment, then you should stop blogging.

    Full.Stop.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    awful doesn’t begin to describe it. i find it incredibly frustrating that legions of so-called progressives are willing to overlook this. that blackface stunt is one step below flat-out calling obama a nigger.

    in response to one of my posts on the subject, a commenter at balloon juice said that i took her use of blackface out of context. OUT OF CONTEXT.

    another told me to go out and find evidence that black folks are frustrated. it’s a typical derailing tactic. accusing a person trying to highlight the struggles of marginalized people (LGBTQ, women, POCs) of overexaggerating, or taking shit out of context, or being too angry, all in a gambit to change the discussion.

    talk about apologists.

    moreover, people who are community organizers tend to remain community organizers at heart. if the richies are going to get to keep their tax cut, then obama made sure that the benefits to the less fortunate would outweigh the republicans need to coalesce more wealth for the wealthiest two percent.

    from what i can tell, hamsherites don’t give a rat’s ass about how the poor will be affected. they can only see “billionairetaxcutsbillionairetaxcuts.” she edited her appearance on the Last Word to make it seem like she knew what she was talking about because Ezra Klein “got her.” it was a lie. but will her sycophants go out and research her lies? nope. because no one who disagrees with her is allowed to post on her blog, so she’s created one giant circle jerk where everyone can grab the virtual penis of the person next to them and wank away to the glory that is Our Lady of Hamsher.

    It’s a shame. A few years ago, I was really impressed by the level of intelligent discussion going on in the netroots. Now, I wouldn’t visit DKos if my head was on fire, and I only read the FDL comment section to marvel at how the inmates have taken over the asylum.

    If you have to moderate every critical comment, then you should stop blogging.

    Full.Stop.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    WHAT is “exactly what is going on here”? She’s incoherent.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    WHAT is “exactly what is going on here”? She’s incoherent.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    oh don’t even get me started on that one. that was a classic palin move.

    ZOMG! He called us retards.

    nobody is talking to you, JANE because you’re irrelevant.

    go away.

    farther.

    farther.

    farther.

    still too close.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    oh don’t even get me started on that one. that was a classic palin move.

    ZOMG! He called us retards.

    nobody is talking to you, JANE because you’re irrelevant.

    go away.

    farther.

    farther.

    farther.

    still too close.

  • Amadeus482000

    “When people are presented with such plain evidence of bad faith, and pass right over it, there’s no conclusion to make but that they are willingly blinkered followers.”

    That’s hilarious. You just did it again!

  • Amadeus482000

    “When people are presented with such plain evidence of bad faith, and pass right over it, there’s no conclusion to make but that they are willingly blinkered followers.”

    That’s hilarious. You just did it again!

  • Anonymous

    The most “movement” I’ve seen from the left is when Olbermann got suspended.

  • Anonymous

    The most “movement” I’ve seen from the left is when Olbermann got suspended.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Try this thread http://bit.ly/eA8I17

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Try this thread http://bit.ly/eA8I17

  • Anonymous

    Its as if you went into my brain! I have been thinking and saying so much of this for months. Especially the part about the left taking on the tea party. This was their time and they blew it.

  • Anonymous

    Its as if you went into my brain! I have been thinking and saying so much of this for months. Especially the part about the left taking on the tea party. This was their time and they blew it.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “Back down from GOP bullies?” What? I’ve been operating a forward observation post for wingnutery since 1987. I have attended tea parties and taken video. I have interviewed Republican campaign workers in their headquarters. I have faced down police to record acts of civil disobedience. What?

    As for talking about regressive taxation: I’ve done that. Lots. You should know the site before you set fire to it.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “Back down from GOP bullies?” What? I’ve been operating a forward observation post for wingnutery since 1987. I have attended tea parties and taken video. I have interviewed Republican campaign workers in their headquarters. I have faced down police to record acts of civil disobedience. What?

    As for talking about regressive taxation: I’ve done that. Lots. You should know the site before you set fire to it.

  • Amadeus482000

    Maybe. I’m not the one compiling dossiers on left-wing bloggers and activists to be marginalized, so perhaps there are some facts I’m missing.

    What truly troubles the Osborne cabal is that some may be supportive of these folks yet– GASP– also have criticism! Sadly, this kind of nuance doesn’t play well among those with a vested interest in systematically marginalizing anti-change views.

  • Amadeus482000

    Maybe. I’m not the one compiling dossiers on left-wing bloggers and activists to be marginalized, so perhaps there are some facts I’m missing.

    What truly troubles the Osborne cabal is that some may be supportive of these folks yet– GASP– also have criticism! Sadly, this kind of nuance doesn’t play well among those with a vested interest in systematically marginalizing anti-change views.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    if she opposed the tax cuts solely because of the billionaire give away, that would be a valid disagreement. but what she does is far more pernicious. she attacks obama’s character… what he has built his political career and philosophy on — community organizing and helping the less fortunate.

    jane, who, i assume, does not regularly interact with people who are below her station (or colored people) accused obama of using poor people as a human shield.

    that is BULLSHIT and she knows it. who is she helping? honestly. who? certainly not people like me who went uninsured for a year after being laid off in the brutal law firm bloodbath a couple years ago because i have a preexisting condition. and when i found my current job, i couldn’t sign up on my employer’s plan for 6 months due to my preexisting condition.

    does jane care about that? of course not. she’s lining her pockets with thousands of dollars (donated to her PAC by some of the very unemployed individuals she now expects obama to ignore); she can afford health insurance.

    ideals are great. we should aspire to them. we should not, however, trounce on those who are suppose to be our allies and those who we as liberals are supposed to care about on our way to that great ideal in the sky. jane hamsher has built her legacy by trouncing on others: her book deal about all the in-fighting on NBK; and now those pesky poor people she doesn’t want to talk about.

    she’s really quite malignant.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    if she opposed the tax cuts solely because of the billionaire give away, that would be a valid disagreement. but what she does is far more pernicious. she attacks obama’s character… what he has built his political career and philosophy on — community organizing and helping the less fortunate.

    jane, who, i assume, does not regularly interact with people who are below her station (or colored people) accused obama of using poor people as a human shield.

    that is BULLSHIT and she knows it. who is she helping? honestly. who? certainly not people like me who went uninsured for a year after being laid off in the brutal law firm bloodbath a couple years ago because i have a preexisting condition. and when i found my current job, i couldn’t sign up on my employer’s plan for 6 months due to my preexisting condition.

    does jane care about that? of course not. she’s lining her pockets with thousands of dollars (donated to her PAC by some of the very unemployed individuals she now expects obama to ignore); she can afford health insurance.

    ideals are great. we should aspire to them. we should not, however, trounce on those who are suppose to be our allies and those who we as liberals are supposed to care about on our way to that great ideal in the sky. jane hamsher has built her legacy by trouncing on others: her book deal about all the in-fighting on NBK; and now those pesky poor people she doesn’t want to talk about.

    she’s really quite malignant.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Repeating oneself
    in strangely haiku verses
    defending Hamsher

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Repeating oneself
    in strangely haiku verses
    defending Hamsher

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    The mistake is to think I attack her character. I don’t. I am measuring her fruits, which are far less than Obama’s. What legislation has Hamsher passed?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    The mistake is to think I attack her character. I don’t. I am measuring her fruits, which are far less than Obama’s. What legislation has Hamsher passed?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Because it’s an empirical reality?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Because it’s an empirical reality?

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    i find it incredibly frustrating that legions of so-called progressives are willing to overlook this.

    It’s another symptom of teabagging on the left, afaic. Same reaction, same overdefensiveness, same deliberate ignorance about uses of stereotypes, same willingness to perpetuate their use.

    Now they’re even using Palinite language such as “that hopey changey thing”, and jerking knees about how non-racist they are (they just don’t like the policies, some of their best friends, the whole predictable gamut we’ve seen on the latte left for decades.)

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    i find it incredibly frustrating that legions of so-called progressives are willing to overlook this.

    It’s another symptom of teabagging on the left, afaic. Same reaction, same overdefensiveness, same deliberate ignorance about uses of stereotypes, same willingness to perpetuate their use.

    Now they’re even using Palinite language such as “that hopey changey thing”, and jerking knees about how non-racist they are (they just don’t like the policies, some of their best friends, the whole predictable gamut we’ve seen on the latte left for decades.)

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    So we’re supposed to waste money, time, and outrage accomplishing nothing? Surely that will defeat the oligarchy.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    So we’re supposed to waste money, time, and outrage accomplishing nothing? Surely that will defeat the oligarchy.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    the good bloggers at FDL should jump ship and start their own blog. I won’t read anything over there because before I do, I already hate the message, simply because of jane.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    the good bloggers at FDL should jump ship and start their own blog. I won’t read anything over there because before I do, I already hate the message, simply because of jane.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Liked for “staunch old guard defenders.” I hadn’t been called that one yet. So you’re a “pro-change” liberal? What changes have you accomplished, or are you just “pro” change? Because I think Jane is pro-change, I really do. But she hasn’t accomplished any.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Liked for “staunch old guard defenders.” I hadn’t been called that one yet. So you’re a “pro-change” liberal? What changes have you accomplished, or are you just “pro” change? Because I think Jane is pro-change, I really do. But she hasn’t accomplished any.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Actually, the PAC gave exactly $5000 to a no-name candidate *DEFENDING* the health care bill Hamsher hated. He lost in the primary. Badly.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Actually, the PAC gave exactly $5000 to a no-name candidate *DEFENDING* the health care bill Hamsher hated. He lost in the primary. Badly.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    There is a pronounced commissariat at FDL.

  • Amadeus482000

    “The D’s might not have to do anything” — Ah, now there’s the party I remember that knows how to rescue defeat from the jaws of victory…

    Keep caving to the GOP and Tea Party thugs– I’m sure that will help in the polls. When you lose you can just blame Jane Hamsher. See how easy this is?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Coined. drsquid credited for “weeniarchy.” Ironically, Anthony Wiener is not one.

  • Amadeus482000

    And this shows how Hamsher is helping the oligarchs how?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    That’s the problem, Kevin; both parties are working for the oligarchy. So is Jane Hamsher, which is also the problem.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’m glad the knight-errant Kevin Gosztola has defended her honor. I hope it profits him, but I suspect that won’t happen.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “Accepting dissent means accepting exactly the views you absolutely despise. Otherwise, you do not accept dissent.”

    And your comment is left to stand. OOPS! There it is

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    It’s classic scapegoating and lazy politics. No wonder the rwnj’s out organized us in 10.

    And if I ever use “Weeniocracy” I’ll credit you for that one, too.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “if you continue to cede ground to your class enemies at this rate, you’ll be left with precisely the corporate autocracy you asked for”

    I was writing about oligarchy before Jane was on the set of Natural Born Killers. I was reading Orwell before teachers made me. Project? Much!

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    And now we come full circle: “willingly blinkered followers” http://crooksandliars.com/matt-osborne/politics-rationalization

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Dissonance!

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    “-bagger” was an obvious joke in response to your own. As for the article, it’s your link, why post it?

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    They’ve also hopped aboard the one-term bandwagon. Some “movement”.

  • Amadeus482000

    Much has been accomplished by the Obama administration, stuff that I bet both you and I put our ass on the line for in 2008. Here’s a good place to start if you want to see some of the President’s– and therefore the PEOPLE’s– accomplishments:

    http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

    But it’s not just Obama accomplishing these things, it’s us. We did this by electing him, by calling and writing our elected officials, and by holding him accountable, as he asked progressives to do.

    And if Obama continues to move away from the basic types of change we mandated him in 2008, he WILL be held accountable, 100% guaranteed. The anti-change forces seem to wish they didn’t have to live in a democracy, and because of this dratted democracy they cannot quash all measures for accountability that the Democrat and Republican COMINTERNs deem unacceptable.

    IMO, THAT is what you absolutely cannot stand — that status quo Democrats are losing control of their corporate backing and, with it, hegemony over their message.

    I haven’t seen one of the staunch old guard defenders stand up courageously and say they roll back democracy and free speech in the name of Party. That, however, is exactly what would be necessary at this point to get the status quo Dems out of their back-biting tailspin.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think money, time or outrage is wasted if applied to acts of rebellion. In these times, rebellion is called for. I see FDL as part of the struggle.

    The counter to what you say here is – What’s the alternative? What would you prefer to see Jane and Firebaggers do (besides drink a cup of STFU)?

  • Anonymous

    Actually, I don’t think CNN gives a shit about Jane Hamsher, FDL, or Firebaggers.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Is Amadeus saying that arguing with him is crushing dissent? One can allow dissenting views; one doesn’t have to accept them.

    Hamsher does not allow dissenting views. She can’t have a “full-throated,” to coin a phrase, discussion with someone holding another viewpoinet that does not conclude with banning the dissenter.

  • Anonymous

    You really should give credit to MoveOn.org, who originally penned those words you posted above.
    http://pol.moveon.org/taxdealproblems/

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Not she, he.

    Yep [Osborne's post is] a full-throated defense of Obama’s results, framed as a full-throated attack on Hamsher for her criticism of the same [base on] unrelated reasons, [her alleged] character flaws.

  • Anonymous

    Not in it for profit. I just don’t think Jane Hamsher is a “ratfucker.”

  • Anonymous

    Hmm, could that be because change in this political and economic climate will take time? You don’t give up or lower your sights. You double your efforts and keep fighting.

  • Anonymous

    It could change if they keep working. Their presence may not have a measurable impact now. So what?

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Uh-huh. Do you really think the petulant lefty-rollers are going to stay home if a Romney or Palin is on the ticket? Maybe someone will get really activistey and write in Harvey Milk to, i dunno, make some kind of point.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    That is a standard for Hamsher, but not extended to her targets (whom, I wish to remind you, are never conservatives. )

    Obama would certainly sign any bill ending tax cuts for the wealthy that reached his desk. But no bill like that will reach his desk, this session, and guaranteed no bill will reach his desk like that next session, which is why blithely hoping to get a better deal in a worse climate is crazy.

    Hamsher has only one mode–attack–and poor aim.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Considering the censorship and adolescent tricks like presenting her followers with doctored clips ( her exchange with Ezra Klein, misadvertised and cut to look as agreeing with her when he was DISagreeing with her) that can easily be viewed in their entirety outside the precincts of FDL, I’d say Jane’s followers are looking more than a little peaky and milk-fed themselves.

    In fact, use of that phrase should have the reader looking around for dead canaries.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    1. Hamsher only attacks Center-left, left, to downright Socialists.
    2. Hamsher partners with far-right Conservatives.
    3. Hamsher has had no effect on legislation, or elections, or even the Susan G. Komen Institute, beyond whatever resources they had to spend answering her attack on their Goodwill Ambassador for being married to the man she put in blackface.
    4. Hamsher formed a PAC where she sold her FDL list of names (and wasn’t there some kind of statement on FDL that they didn’t do that?) to herself. And frankly, she didn’t even get a good price. She should have bargained herself down a bit more. Her negotiating skills need some honing.)
    5. Hamsher’s PAC expended most of its resources on Hamsher & Friends, a pauper’s ransom on one candidate, and got exactly nobody elected.
    6. Within the last 2 days, Hamsher posted a deceptive clip and deceitful post. The full clip has only to be viewed alongside hers to see the deception.
    7. You just don’t care about any of this.

  • http://topsy.com/trackback?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osborneink.com%2F2010%2F12%2Fwhen-commitment-to-jane-hamsher-supersedes-critical-thinking.html%23comment-111803891&utm_source=pingback&utm_campa Tweets that mention Osborne Ink » Blog Archive » When Commitment To Jane Hamsher Supersedes Critical Thinking — Topsy.com

    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Gail Leach, Matt Osborne. Matt Osborne said: RE: @LftHndMn That cult is proving its existence to us in the comments section. http://disq.us/utscr [...]

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Last 30 years, aka an entire generation of Reagan-Bush-Thatcherism?

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    No, actually, it’s MSNBC and Fox that give her the facetime. She was excellent cover for Fox’s “Fair and Balanced” motto!

  • http://topsy.com/trackback?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osborneink.com%2F2010%2F12%2Fwhen-commitment-to-jane-hamsher-supersedes-critical-thinking.html%23more-7149&utm_source=pingback&utm_campaign=L2 Tweets that mention Osborne Ink » Blog Archive » When Commitment To Jane Hamsher Supersedes Critical Thinking — Topsy.com

    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Cindy P and Matt Osborne, Pete Start. Pete Start said: A blog in which @OsborneInk responds to Firebaggers, so that you don't have to: http://bit.ly/fBxXYA #actuallyyoudohaveto [...]

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Rebellion by keyboard. You can’t make omelettes without breaking a few fingernails!

    STFU is what Hamsher applies to dissenters at her place. And the “So we should STFU, then” as an automatic response to anyone who criticizes FDL’s unthinking, unproductive tantrums is just tiresome.

    How about applying the same standards to Republicans and Teabaggers as FDL demands from their targets? How about admitting that yes, Hamsher’s PAC is a waste of money that could go elsewhere and that her lack of transparency is a problem?

    When Hamsher’s own ad company was taking money from BP while she was slamming anyone else who took it, did that bother you?

    Nobody wants you to STFU. Please. You are demonstrating that Osborne’s title for this post is deadly accurate. It’s actually painful to watch.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    You’re committing to a cause represented by someone who applies double standards, takes money under questionable circumstances, spends it on overhead, sells assets from her left hand to her right hand, and mounts an overwhelmingly negative campaign against democrats, but leaves the right wing alone when she isn’t partnering with it. If there ever is a measurable impact, it won’t be the one you seem to seek.

  • http://twitter.com/SwashZone OCTOPUS

    On the Lawrence O’Donnell Show (MSNBC) last week, there was Ralph Nader echoing sentiments similar to those of other Obama detractors: Obama is naïve, consorted with Wall Street criminals, caved to Republicans, gave away the store, and failed to control the message wars. Last and most brazen of all, there was Ralph Nader calling for a primary challenger to face Obama in 2012.

    Ralph Nader: STFU! Had Nader stayed away from the elections in 2000, Gore would have won an uncontested victory. Had Gore won, there would have been NO George Bush, NO war in Iraq, NO tax giveaways to the wealthy, NO giant deficits, NO economic meltdown, and NO bank bailouts.

    Primary challenge indeed! Ralph Nader is the Mother-Of-Self-Sabotaging-Liberals, and now he wants a command performance. Give me a break!

    Had we withheld our support from Obama in 2008, who would be our president now? JOHN McCAIN! With SARAH PALIN at his side … one breadth away from the presidency!

    When progressives divide against themselves, the Republicans win every time. And you wonder what is wrong with liberals? Chicken Little or headless chickens, take your pick!

    Octopus

  • Anonymous

    Let me make this plain – I am not committed to Jane Hamsher. I am not someone who idolizes and feels like she is a Goddess. I do not have any problem with people who do not like or outright hate her. If that’s one someone wants to do, fine. I do, however, have a commitment to much of the progressive politics that FDL likes to promote. That is why I wrote the response to Matt Osborne that I did.

    For me, this isn’t about Jane. This is about progressivism and how people within the liberal class like to turn liberal defectors into pariahs.

  • Anonymous

    Bullshit! Gore cost Gore the election. Nobody is entitled to votes. What about the Democrats who voted for Bush? Why didn’t he win their votes? Registered Democrats crossed over and voted Bush. Why not be outraged at them? Why pin the blame on Nader?

    Nader’s work is to be celebrated. He has done tremendous work as a consumer advocate. And, he has challenged the two-party dictatorship we live under time and time again.

    Divide themselves? You mean when people abandon princples and values and put up a spineless fight, liberals lose. When liberals compromise just moments after the battle or war has begun, liberals lose.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    Because they represent a very small subsection of liberals and not only do they routinely ignore the interests of minorities and those on the lower rungs of the class ladder, but they also actively mock them and discount them.

    Honestly, take a look at black bloggers and what they are saying. Then take a look at the polls. If you expect change, it’s better to be inclusive than exclusive, wouldn’t you agree? But that’s not what Hamsher is about. That’s why it pisses me off when she throws around terms like hippie-punching. Her little bans of miscreants aren’t the base and the way they behave warrants a little self-reflection. They brought this heat on themselves and have no one to blame but themselves.

    Jane is a coward; won’t even allow differing opinions to take up precious space on her Obama hate-fest. Cowards don’t make for good leaders.

    ETA: they = some of them

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    Emily Hauser has a great blog dedicated to Israel/Palestinian issues. To boil it down, she’s a proud pro-Palestinian anti-Zionist Jew. (I hope she’ll forgive my sound-byte description.)

    Excellent passionate writer:

    http://emilylhauserinmyhead.wordpress.com/

  • http://parsleyspics.blogspot.com tnlib

    Bravo. I dropped FDL early on after I posted a blog based on an article at FDL and upon further reading of the facts elsewhere found that theirs were slightly scewed. I had already grown suspicious of some of their rhetoric and their lack of accuracy, so I knocked them off my blog roll. I’m happy to find so many who share my distate for Jane and crew.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    Why make Nader take responsibility for his actions? Because we’re not in the business of excusing lies and destructive acting out. The error that you firebaggers keep making is that you insist on seeing democracy as a shopping experience. It was not up to Al Gore only to “sell” and “market” the Al Gore candidacy. Civic Duty is for everyone. And when Ralph Nader told people in Florida that there was no difference between Gore and Bush, he mislead them – with tragic consequences.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    I’ve looked at Paul’s arguments which is why I wrote what I did. Being able to spell “hegemony” doesn’t make you an intellectual.

    Paul banned me from OpenLeft (which is apparently as open as it is “left”) when I pointed out how unseemly it was for white “progressives” to insist against all evidence that an obviously smart and strong black man was a naive tool of a white Jewish puppeteer. That’s story I have heard before and whether the narrator considers himself to be a member of the master race or a brilliant ideological thinker of the Left, I’m not too impressed.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    Nice dodge. They can certainly hope for a promised land, but when they claim to represent a majority and polls show them to be a small minority, the claim is false now.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    Arise ye bloggers from your slumbers
    Arise ye advocates of misery
    For angry typing in revolt now thunders
    And at last gets you on MSNBC

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    that has got to be the single most laughable comment I have ever seen. Hey it’s only HISTORIC if you think of the last entire generation but not if you compare it to the last 500 years! By God! And what Obama’s done is just crap compared to the splitting up of Gondwanaland!

  • Anonymous

    Fear is the biggest commodity of them all.

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    This is the result of NCLB, I’m afraid: people who believe their vote is a commodity. No clue about what it took to get universal suffrage they take for granted. No, Al Gore didn’t sufficitnely market himself to me to my liking, so I’m going to go vote for Nader, whose party keeps getting money from Republicans.

    Then I’ll go and label fellow liberals as being in bed with conservatives.

  • Anonymous

    Hamsher made the deals with several Repubs. I don’t know why they would object to her -She does their work for them.

  • Anonymous

    NO Progressive think tank has EVER come up with a way to get a public option without the Repubs destroying it before it gets off the ground. From FDR to Hillary, Obama and Edwards. None of them campaigned on it, because it’s not feasible. Insurance companies would pull out while the system is being built, no one gets paid in the interim, the health care system collapses, and it becomes a Democratic failure.

    It’s political grandstanding.

    All any President CAN do is continue to expand coverage, until it becomes feasible.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    That unhappy shopper bit is central to the firebagger act. Because “democrats” didn’t inspire them to use the vote that people died to get for them, they can sulk until “democrats” restock the shelves with more inspiring slogans. The idea that a citizen has a civic duty to act in the common interest means as much to them as it does to Republicans.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Let it never be said that some lasting good didn’t come out of this, and I think your lyrical Internetionale is it!

  • Anonymous

    Ummm! Isn’t everyone accountable? ESPECIALLY an organization called ACCOUNTABILITY NOW?!?!?

  • Anonymous

    AccountablilityNOW except for us – we’ll take your money for our personal gain.

    All we’re going to offer is MORAL SUPPORT.

  • Anonymous

    Are you on Hamsher’s payroll?

    (See how that works?)

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Yes and add to it that some of the Republicans, like the committed antiabortionists and other social conservatives are in their fight for the long haul. They keep getting taken in by carnival barkers like Palin and Beck, but they’ve been at it for the better part of 40 years. They’re not going to stop any time soon so yeah lattebaggers, sit on your rear ends in 2012. Want something to gripe about? President Newt will do the trick.

    Leftybaggers…worse than conservtives…

  • Anonymous

    Yet she doesn’t address how it is she pays herself through her own PAC for providing herself media.

  • Anonymous

    She IS the oligarchy. How many millions does she have?

  • Anonymous

    not as much as a 50% tax increase on the poor, and a 33% increase on the middle class. Plus a denial of benefits to the unemployed, loss of EITC, the Child Tax Credit, et al.

  • Anonymous

    Where has she EVER won an argument with the electorate?

  • Anonymous

    She specializes in attacking Dems and telling people to stay home.

    As befitting a millionaire who likes things the way they are.

  • Anonymous

    I think she is just another Millionaire who likes things the way they are, and is dedicated to attacking all Dems while giving moral support to marginal candidates.

  • Anonymous

    and profiteering from it all.

  • Anonymous

    Hamser, Green, and Greenwald told folks to stay home. Sorry, the result is a Republican house, and a slim majority in the Senate, which means the accomplishments will cease.

    The hard votes Pelosi AND Reid are on record as saying they wanted them held after the election.

    they thought you would show up.

    Thanks to Hamsher, Greenwald, Green, et al – you stayed home.

  • http://twitter.com/SwashZone OCTOPUS

    Bullshit yourself. Gore was only the second candidate in history to win the popular vote but lose in the Electoral College. In Florida, Gore lost to Bush by a mere 537 votes. Nader siphoned off 90,000+ votes that would more likely have gone to Gore. Thus, Nader handed the election to Bush, pure and simple.

    Don’t lecture me about principles and values. Considering Bush’s Iraq misadventure, and the hundreds of thousands of lives lost, and the trillions of dollars wasted, and Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo, and extreme rendition, and torture … you are bereft of any claim to principles and values. Bullshit yourself!

    Octopus

  • http://emilylhauserinmyhead.wordpress.com Emily Hauser

    Hey there! Thank you! Wow! What a lovely surprise!

    But I wouldn’t call myself anti-Zionist. I figure that if I’m pro-Palestinian nationalism, I should probably be pro-Jewish nationalism too (and don’t forget I’m also Israeli! Just to confuse things more!).

    I think that in the long term, I’m anti-nationalism-of-any-kind, but as long as we’re organizing the world along these lines, I guess those are the lines we have to go by until we can come up with something better.

    Here’s me waxing angsty about all of that: http://emilylhauserinmyhead.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/israeli-independence-day-marking-not-celebrating/

    What I am, though, is anti-occupation, anti-settlement, anti-official Israeli policy, anti-Bibi, anti-anything that isn’t a just and mutually agreed-upon two state solution. I’m also very anti-all the lying that the various Israeli governments have engaged in in order to hold on to as much of the Palestinians’ land as possible.

    My feeling is that both peoples have equal rights and claim to the land, so we have to find a way to share it. The Palestinian people have already conceded the 72% of historical Palestine that is now the State of Israel — we Israelis had damn well figure out a way to give them back their 28%. Or we’ll all be fucked, frankly.

  • Anonymous

    ROFLMFAO!!!!

  • Anonymous

    All she does is attack leading democrats, while partnering with repubs. She takes Progressives’ cash, without supporting any Progressives.

    You figure out the opportunity cost.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    under the bus
    the veal pen bleats
    purity

    Buddha blinks
    aware of nothing
    blames The One

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Uh-oh. We’re reaching burn notice territory.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    The Admiral has spoken.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    How was I to know? All I have is a picture of O’Donnell, who is so last season.

    Where did I address character in this blog? Answer: I didn’t. I accused her of a naked hypocrisy and double-dealing based on her actions, not her character.

    But for all that, yes, she *IS* an attention whore.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    repeating jargon
    from a firebagging website
    like words were magic

    Loopy Samsara:
    Fix is in, truth is a lie.
    Dissonant revolt!

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’ll give DK credit. Markos spoke to me on camera and there are some REALLY fine people in that community; but oh how the firebagging burns.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    A point I am not in position to make, as I’ve no estimate of her income. But I’m aware she has money.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Facts!

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    But wait, I thought MoveOn wasn’t liberal enough.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    As I said, Kevin, I retract that name and substitute a more martial one.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Galt? Really?

    You’re a libertarian?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    The president responds to critics left AND right and that makes him an angry critic of poor little Jane Hamsher. See how that works?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’ve been arguing that change takes time since before Obama was elected. In fact, I am pretty sure there’s a blog post back in those archives where I warned all three readers at the time that progress would come by inches before yards. The thing is, where I come from we learned to react to fire from the right by concentrating our own fire in that direction — not at our own side. At Right Online, the stalker symposium opposite Netroots Nation, bloggers proudly say they “keep your fire to the left” and ACTUALLY LOOK LEFT.

    All I see right now from 90% of the blogosphere is more bitching. I also see firebaggers going full metal Galt about taking down the system. These people are aiming the wrong way and still missing most of the time.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “But no bill like that will reach his desk, this session, and guaranteed no bill will reach his desk like that next session”

    They don’t get how bad they fucked themselves. Really.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    You are the first dimension of 11-dimensional chess. Guess what? Shaming Democrats doesn’t help them pass better laws, it doesn’t help them win or improve majorities, and so far it seems to really be all about a hit count. Something has got to be more important than the hit count.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Rebellion? Really? A website is a rebellion? By those lights, Infowars is a rebellion. In fact, Alex Jones claims it is an act of rebellion.

    Would you be OK with Hamsher making common cause with Alex Jones? I wouldn’t. No way.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    OK, here’s where we can talk about what people ought to be doing. If we are to grow the progressive movement, it needs to (A) resonate with people (B) use language (C) build culture.

    The culture at FDL shocks me. The jargon in the comments amuses and confuses me. And as I’ve written before, corporate personhood doesn’t resonate with Americans. So as far as I can see, FDL and Hamsher aren’t actually changing anything.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’m glad you’re not committed to her, Kevin, but bear in mind that everyone who’s spent a lot of time posting over there has gotten worse. It’s like seeing people turn to meth.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Quoted.

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Next session, it will be even more Obama’s fault when progressive legislation isn’t passed. BULLY PULPITS ALWAYS SHAME BULLIES INTO VOTING FOR PROGGY PROGRAMS! ! Why isn’t he using his Bully Pulpit??? BULLY BULLY!

    The world would be perfect if only we yelled at it enough.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “The Osborne cabal” ROFLMAO! I have a cabal? Really? Because if so, then Kevin’s a double-agent.

  • http://twitter.com/all_a_twitt_r ôl ə twit′ər

    Fucking Jews master race. Wait weren’t the Germans told they were the master race by the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei? In fact, it was article of patriot pride. Imagine, a Jew putting forth such blatantly racist crap. Now who said it and please, provide a link.

  • Zirgar

    So…what’d I miss?

  • Mark Brooks

    When she bought the RecList is about the time I started distancing myself. It is clearly gaming the system over there, and although I like Markos personally, it was a bad episode.

    I was already hard enough to be heard over there w/o ensuring 2 or 3 slots a day going to paid bloggers like Slinkerwink.

  • Mark Brooks

    Can I be Secretary-Treasurer?

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    Your ability to confuse yourself is impressiv, but not distinctive.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    her brand of progressivism is based upon lies, exclusion, and sticking one’s fingers in one’s ears and singing “la la la” when people who are purportedly on her team voice an objection to the manner in which this self-annointed leader of TEH PROGRESSIVEZ is conducting her business and her “operation.” i really cannot understand how you can claim this is irrelevant. not only is she a shitty leader, she’s at worst a racist opportunist, and at best, entirely lacking in judgment.

    either way, it’s time that the greenwald/kos/hamsher trifuckta of fuckery drift off into the stratosphere and let those of us who actually give a damn take it from here.

    they’ve made their millions, written their books, bashed obama enough to last for the next six years. they can either fight for the cause and they people they claim to represent or they can shut the fuck right up. yeah, i said it. STFU.

    they aren’t helping. i used to write scads of posts about palin and beck and limbaugh and the rest of the Asshats on the Right. around september, i began writing about the Asshats on the Left. i’ve never done that before; but it seems more important to try to clear the minds of the janewashed masses who are supposed to be on our fucking side but who can’t get out of the goddamn echo chamber. everybody knows the republicans are assholes — now we’re fighting the assholes in our tent.

    it sucks.

    enough already.

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/ Angry Black Lady (also STM)

    keep working at WHAT, exactly? destroying the left?

    christ on a biscuit!

  • Anonymous

    Well, I will concede a lot to you if FDL editors collectively decide I did this for my own personal gain –

    “Osborne is a nobody . . . why did you seem to think you should post this at FDL?

    Now that I’ve got MOST of the details on this, I gotta say I’d never have wasted FDL’s white space with it . . . after all, Osborne is a nobody . . . there’s really no story here but you and some schmuck duking it out on YOUR blog and FB.

    Which is common as hell 24/7 on a million blogs and FB’s.

    You made a big ass diary outta nothing. George and Jerrry and Kramer could make a coffeetable book outta this . . .

    Just to get some ink? Or are am I to believe yer so altruistic you did this out of some intent of fighting dragons?”

  • Anonymous

    Are you going to the civil disobedience action in D.C.?

    I think we should have more back and forth discussions on progressive politics. We can take specific areas and debate. I’m not gonna let FDL pricks convince me I shouldn’t talk to you. When I challenged you, it was never my intention to do something that would lead to us never talking again.

    Maybe we debate some more on a podcast talk radio show next year. Good luck to you.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll take the Director position if it’s still open.

    P.S. I love your post! Says exactly what I have been thinking regarding Hamsher.

  • Amadeus482000

    Prove it.

  • Amadeus482000

    So Hamsher, Green and Greenwald cost the Democrats the House? Where’s the data to back up your claim? (Oh right- that’s not done here.)

  • Amadeus482000

    Yeah, you’re right, Obsborne. MLK’s March on Washington was such a bust.

    And I forgot that telling the truths the Democratic leadership doesn’t want the public to hear repeatedly amounts to “shaming Democrats.” I’ll try to remember to march in formation next time, like any Good Liberal should. Is Osborne going to speak about the poor, unemployed, and Social Security recipients who truly are getting “shamed” by this deal? Or is the dignity of the anti-Change Dem and Republican politicians in Washington more sacrosanct?

    Keep protecting your abusers, Osborne. Surely that’ll greatly help your party’s prospects down the road. What’s that? Nope, keep protecting them– they didn’t tell you to stop.

  • Amadeus482000

    Trotting out your resume won’t help you here– Osborne. In case you haven’t heard, not many people are hiring. And in doing so you continue to avoid speaking to the points raised by Gosztola with regard to the rise of corporate and authoritarian influences within the Democratic Party.

    Is this the “river in Egypt” form of Party pragmatism, and is that what it’s really come to?

  • Amadeus482000

    Yup.

  • Amadeus482000

    Osborne wrote: “if you think that’s an attack specific to Hamsher then think again.”

  • Amadeus482000

    LOL! I love that you think I’m setting fire to the site! Better raise the terror alert to Red, huh Osborne? ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Bingo. And then when other commenters even bring up the possible banning the Rayne the moderator over there will not come on and confirm or explain. Although Rayne and Jane will come on and attack, undermine, try to change the subject etc when someone has expressed an opposing view or challenges Jane or Rayne. There is a very serious history over there of eliminating other views or challenges. A real problem with manipulation and censorship. This is not the case at Greenwalds. A real distinction between Glenn and Jane.

    Glenn is much more willing to deal with all serious issues that progressives are concerned with. Not the case with Hamsher

    Notice to that Hamsher will jump on a bus (legalization of marijuana) in an opportunist way and then seems to jump off.

  • Amadeus482000

    Prove it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Pointing out the weaknesses and deals being made is critical. Hamsher does do this.

  • Anonymous

    You forgot their other favorite phrase: TWISTING ARMS! Why isn’t Obama TWISTING ARMS!!!!???!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    definitely had an effect on the Blanche Lincoln outing. Keeping the public option in the news. Although you sure do make a solid point about Hamsher not going after Republicans. Solid point

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Consider and allow opposing views and challenges. They ban folks over there all of the time. Have purposely closed down the debate on the Israeli Palestinian conflict over there. Reflection Learning from their mistakes, more focus on counting the votes

  • http://twitter.com/BumpItMcCarthy BumpIt McCarthy

    Yup, those are certainly people who want to beleeeeeeve in Jane! I’m sorry they instantly went for your throat for merely introducing a discordant element into their FDL reality, even in the course of defending her.

    Your wish to express your discontent with Obama’s, and the Dems’, often disappointing record from a left point of view is perfectly reasonable to me. And putting a press on them through criticism, letters, etc, entirely fair. But what you say here:

    “For me, this isn’t about Jane. This is about progressivism and how people within the liberal class like to turn liberal defectors into pariahs.”

    that’s what Jane is trying to do. She was actually talking about primarying Bernie Sanders, for God’s sake. Her criticism isn’t coming from an honest place, moreover; if it were, she would be aiming some of her firepower at the right.

    Moreover, the left that styles itself The Real Left, with its constant, unrelenting attacks on actual elected folks, makes itself irrelevant. In hard politics, why pay attention to a group you know will not support you? Perhaps because the causes it supports are worthy, but although that ought to be enough, it isn’t. A politician who will put his/her seat on the line for a worthy cause is rare.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Rayne (moderator/editor of MY FDL is a real coward. Recently on one of Marcy Wheelers threads: Who by the way is one of the only bloggers over there who can handle opposing views or information.
    http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/12/06/there-are-no-critical-infrastructure-cable-landings-in-the-middle-east/

    There Are No Critical Infrastructure Cable Landings in the Middle East

    Rayne jumps on and has the nerve to say:

    “Rayne December 6th, 2010 at 6:05 am
    2

    There is absolutely nothing in this release which can’t be deduced by looking at business listings, unclassified government filings and news reports on the internet. Not a damned thing.

    And there will be all kinds of whining and puling about this release, yet nothing further done to address the root causes of terrorism.”

    Now this person Rayne has done everything in their power over there to shut down the debate at that site about the “root causes of terrorism”

    This person is such a hypocrite and coward. With Jane’s cowardly blessing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    Agree with that. Things have gotten worse over there. Eliminate opposing views. Feed the devotees. And the devotees are somewhat aware of what happens to those with opposing views who challenge them. Although Rayne and moderators never come out and confirm who and why they have banned people even when commenters bring it up on a thread. Real Cowards.

    Although I will continue to stand up for Hamsher based on what I believe her intentions are. But clearly her inability to really take stock of where her strategies have gotten the issues that she allegedly cares about. There really does seem to be something to the opportunist angle and face time that she actively seeks.

    I think Glen Greenwald and Katrina are much better examples of reps of progressives who can in a more balanced way look at what the Dems have been up against

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    They did represent a majority on the public option. But that may be it

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aisha-Galt-Theis/1033042877 Aisha Galt-Theis

    She really did go overboard. Again I think Katrina not only pointed out the roll over by the Dems on many issues, she always always brought up how the Republicans commitment was to saying no no no to every piece of legislation that Dems were trying to move forward. Jane did not spend much time on culture of NO

  • Amadeus482000

    Except, as Gosztola points out, it’s factually incorrect that Nader cost Gore the election. The fact that Democrats unconvinced by the President’s 2008 mandate for change are still sore about Nader is actually quite revealing.

    Cowardice is shown by status-quo Democrats in pinning the blame anywhere (Nader, Hamsher, Sirota et al.) but on the Democrats and Republicans actually calling the shots at the actual times of the actual events. That kind of cowardice would be laughable if there weren’t real politico-economic consequences, but in the real world it’s direly pathetic. Is it any wonder the GOP has gotten so good at schoolyard-bullying Democrats? Look at the cowardice Dems, along with help from their “friends across the aisle,” deliberately air to audiences of millions.

  • Amadeus482000

    And good or bad, this will continue to happen, guaranteed, until we’re willing to take constructive and meaningful steps to reform the election system. This can be done either by adding more democracy to the process or taking it away. The question is, which approach would a 2010 Democrat choose?

  • http://twitter.com/BobKincaid BobKincaid

    It’s taken something on the order of three days and a lot of smoke, but I think I’ve reached synthesis . . . at least for me.

    Here: Jane Hamsher is an avatar. For one side, she is an avatar of all that “The Left” (dog help me, I laugh every time I type “The Left”- if it exists it’s as minute as all those Whos in Whoville screaming “We’re HERE!”) wants to accomplish. She has some level of dynamism that attracts a largely white, mostly well-off segment of “liberals.” She stands for ideological purity that her followers gladly self-define.

    For others, she’s what’s wrong with “The Left,” forever turning its guns on itself in a circular firing squad while the right-wing giggles itself wet-in-the-pants at the prospect of being able to further advance its nefarious ends while “The Left” quibbles over the finer points of “Leftism.”

    While I think there is much to analyze/criticize about her character, I also acknowledge that there is much to criticize about ANY of our characters. We’re funny that way, we humans. You REALLY wouldn’t want to have drinks with Chariman Mao, Ginghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Gandhi, Dr. King, Jesus H. Christ or most other “outsized” personages. Avatars have a way of making everything about them, and Ms. Hamsher fits that niche quite nicely. It’s not their neighborliness that draws us or repels us: it’s their work.

    It’s all the same old tale that ends “You knew that’s what I was when you picked me up.”

    Ultimately, the problem of avatars is that they afford us a comfort zone in which to do nothing; forever waiting for Godot, we amuse ourselves by watching them/they/those.

    This, in turn, is, I think, a symptom of the reductio ad stupidum of American politics-as-reality-show. It’s easier to watch the show than actually DO something close to home that can lead to bigger things.

    If anyone has it handy, there are two speeches in Warren Beatty’s “Reds” that, if I recall arights, define this dichotomy. In the one, Eugene O’Neill lays out “The Left” in a brutal monologue delivered to Louise in a New York hotel room. This would be the stand-in for critics of Ms. Hamsher.

    In the second scene of note, Jack Reed explains to Grigory Zinoviev the necessity for revolutionaries to hew close to their personal convictions. This is the argument from the FDL faithful.

    The two positions will ALWAYS be in severe dynamic tension, and our side will NEVER march lock-step. The trick lies in, as Matt has noted, learning to aim. We can lick the front sights of our rifles all day long to “cut the haze,” but as long as we’re shooting at the guy down the line instead of the turkey, the problem never WAS the haze in the first place.

    This is not to say that there is no place for criticism of the president. I should know: I do it frequently. Where we miss the mark, I fear, is in mistaking a lack of talent for a lack of desire. I, for instance, once wanted BADLY to be a vocalist. I came to the conclusion that my desire would never overcome my lack of ability. So, too, with our president. I think he might like to be more foreceful than he is, to be a better, stronger negotiator. Unfortunately for us, however, he has no talent for it, at least not in the face of thugs and bullies who, if you’ve never seen them before, are absolutely terrifying.

    Thus, I repeat something I posted elsewhere: one does not help a person stop being bullied by bringing in more bullies.

    Enough. Or as the late Dr. HST would say, “Selah.”

  • Amadeus482000

    Guess what? America is a capitalist society and all major elections in America are funded and promoted by Big Business. So it’s an understatement to say an American’s vote is a commodity, and it’s even more true post-Citizen United.

    How have Democrats dealt with this? By attempting– and humiliatingly failing– to scapegoat the non-corporate-funded candidates.

  • Amadeus482000

    Correct. And in that context Obama’s accomplishments don’t just look impressive on paper– they are.

    But in the context of the overall history of the U.S. and forward-looking leaders (Lincoln, FDR, Johnson… heck, even Nixon at this point), none of the policy “strides” made by the President set any new historical precedent.

  • Amadeus482000

    Astroturfing isn’t a help at all. It’s fundamentally undemocratic on both sides of the political spectrum.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    Maybe you need to look up “fact” in a dictionary.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    There’s always time for Obama to Bomb Cambodia and make you baggers happy then.

  • Amadeus482000

    That’s a hilarious rendition of the 2000 elections. Next time you may want to get all the facts in making these kind of determinations, not just pick the pre-packaged low-hanging fruit that supports only your assertion.

  • http://twitter.com/rootless_e rootless

    thank you. Not many people even get the Internationale reference these days. As Paul Rosenberg noted in his 92 Volume “History of Hegemony, Hegel, and Horseshit – A Preparation H for the Rest of Us”, the objective class reflections of the lumpenproletariat via the mirror of post constructive ideological framing only distorts the dialectic, but cannot subvert it.

  • Amadeus482000

    Painting the picture as an either/or dyad, e.g., “you’re either with Jane Hamsher or against her,” is simply a way of driving in a wedge issue to further divide liberals, progressives, and Democrats. The goal in this case is a decidedly astroturf one: To cleave dissent from the party in favor of its most corporate and authoritarian elements.

    This is done, as ôl ə twit′ər explains, by way of “a full-throated defense of Obama’s results, framed as a full-throated attack on Hamsher [et al.] for her criticism of the same unrelated reasons, her [and others'] alleged character flaws.”

    The more this happens, the more champagne corks pop among our obscenely-wealthy elite.

    Who’s idea was it to carry on the polemics in this way, here on this site? And where did that idea come from?

  • http://twitter.com/SwashZone OCTOPUS

    And where are your facts, Amadeus? Where are your links? Your citations? You present nothing more than sneer and jeer, and that will simply not suffice. You argue like a tea-bagger.

    Octopus

  • Kscoyote

    Rebellion for what purpose? Rebellion?

  • Kscoyote

    Keep working on what? Getting Republicans elected? It seems it’s the only thing she’s good for!

  • Amadeus482000

    How curious that this 6-point description perfectly fits the Democratic party itself.

  • Kscoyote

    I don’t understand, and never will, why they are telling people to call or fax Obama on a matter before Congress.

    This is classic MISDIRECTION.

    Senators only give a damn about lobbyists and constituents. Call your damned Senator.

  • Kscoyote

    Yes, they feel that way while they carry racist signs, while carrying right wing placards.

    What are you smoking?!?

  • Kscoyote

    You mean like her conglomerate at http://csmads.com/csm-publisher-sites

    Where she proudly declares she OWNS the handpicked editors?

    And where she crushes dissent by kicking off dissenters from the sites?

  • Kscoyote

    Because she looks pretty corporate to me.

    http://csmads.com/meet-our-readers

    They contribute generously to causes they believe in.

    Although they’re in their prime parenting years, they’re less likely than the general population to have children in the home. Which means they’re likely to have more discretionary income than their generational cohorts.

    They’ve got strong opinions –informed by a voracious appetite for online news and information. And they aren’t afraid to spread them.

  • Kscoyote

    Looks like she’s nailed you.

  • Amadeus482000

    “Where did I address character in this blog? Answer: I didn’t. I accused her of a naked hypocrisy and double-dealing based on her actions, not her character.”

    ROTFLMAO!!!

  • http://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.com OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

    Well no, that’s a question for the leftyrollers. You know, the sanctimonious types who have already decided what my best interest is and how I’m to vote on it.

  • Amadeus482000

    Even sadder, then, that you’ve now made the choice to back down. Instead you seem to favor a propaganda objective geared towards the cleansing of anti-corporate elements from the left for the sake of ideological and Party Purity.

  • Amadeus482000

    Here’s the thing, though: Whatever ill she’s done doesn’t make all her ideas invalid. That we see no substantive quotations from Hamsher illustrating her views, and only allegations of misdeeds, is highly instructive.

  • Anonymous

    They don’t like this crop of Dems, but aren’t willing to do the work to get a better crop. Or, better yet, run themselves. Really, if you think you have ideas and a plan to get us on a road to progress, you owe it to your country to put your ideas out there in the only field that ultimately matters, that of electoral politics.

    Oh, that’s right, it’s easier for them to amp the outrage and collect the checks without actually being responsible for solving any problems.

  • Kscoyote

    Who owns the House?

  • Kscoyote

    The only ones abusing him, it seems are Team Hamster/Greenmold.

  • Kscoyote

    Ummm. We had an election. Dems stayed home after two years of abuse by so-called Progressives.

  • Kscoyote

    review her FEC filings.

  • Kscoyote

    I posted them above. review her FEC filings. I even gave you the links because it seems you are quite too lazy to find them for yourself.

  • Kscoyote

    She’s nailed you as sheeple. Keep sreading it around~

  • Anonymous

    Which ones are those? Jane Hamsher has several Corporations.

  • Anonymous

    REALLY?!?! Show me one candidate they supported!

  • Kscoyote

    OpenLeft is another Hamsher enterprise. She owns 22 of them.

  • Kscoyote

    Hamsher herself brags about how you all will spread whatever message she tells you to affect politics. It’s on her site.

    http://csmads.com/meet-our-readers

  • http://twitter.com/BobKincaid BobKincaid

    Nice strawman there, Amadeus, but I said nothing about “with her or against her.” I merely pointed out what people appear to be doing with her, as an avatar for other positions they take. People on the hilariously-titled “Left” do these sorts of things the same way the rubes go to the wrasslin’ match on Friday to see the Blue Terror win, and return to the armory on Saturday to see the Red Terror get his revenge.

    I hate to break it to you, but Jane’s a part of that cork-popping elite. She’s not exactly down here in Beans n’ Cornbreadville with the likes of many of us. Remember: there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

    You’ll have to ask Osborne about his motives in posting the story, but knowing him personally for several years now, I’ve no doubt of the genuineness of whatever motive he had. The likeliest motive appears to be his disdain for Hamsher, her PAC and her advertising enterprise, all of which are more than open to question, especially when she’s offered up to the nation as an (unannointed) spokesperson for “progressives.”

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Astroturfing is what we call K-Street pumping money into a rebranding campaign for movement conservatism. We can sit here all day yapping about how it’s not “real,” but in the end CNN will just act like it is. Tell me how you beat that. Tell me how facts magically make that REALITY disappear.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    And the ‘graff wasn’t only specific to her. Do stop trying to pretend I’m saying stuff I’m not.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’m glad you can laugh at her naked hypocrisy and double-dealing. I can’t.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Wow, that’s…that’s completely out there, Amadeus. “You’ve now made the choice to back down” — where? This reply of yours posted while I was in the air on my way to DC to take video of Veterans For Peace leading a direct action in front of the WH in a heavy snow. “You seem to favor a propaganda objective geared towards the cleansing of anti-corporate elements from the left for the sake of ideological and Party Purity” — again, this comment flies in the face of my work, both old and new. It’s almost like you don’t fucking know me at all, which you don’t, and are just popping off whatever bullshit boilerplate you have on a mental notecard to paint me as a sellout (unlike you, who are ideologically pure — see how that works?).

    Psychological projection!

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Oh, I have enjoyed the page load count, to be sure.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Please cite the last piece of legislation that passed without a “deal” of some kind. In fact, it’s kind of the defining characteristic of how Congress works, isn’t it?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Oh, just a fire.

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    Are you upset by the resume because I deconstruct oligarchy better than Hamsher, or because my blog does as much to end oligarchy as Hamsher?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    I’m supposed to engage her ideas instead of the way she fails to put her ideas into action?

  • http://www.osborneink.com OsborneInk

    “Who’s idea was it to carry on the polemics in this way, here on this site? And where did that idea come from?”

    WHOSE, was my idea, here on this, my site. The idea came from me. What part of that is hard to understand?

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